6 or 7 hits, that‘s 16% difference and it has nothing to do with 5 batch in mass combat. Why are you confused?
Gascenya, dervisher and shotel, this combination makes Ethiopia pretty insane. Gascenya+dervisher only present a very one-sided picture of the issue.
You said "And there are other options that are more then viable now, most civs can make halbs and china has the changdao (or just mass cav)” and you also said“ like changdaos are notorious for not countering cav well, so I dont really expect it to counter this unit well either, like china is known for having a cav weakness(if you think about it in the normal counter terms). China’s answer to cav esque unit is their own cav most of the time.” That’s contradictory. Mass cav is killed by Gascenya btw.
As a player in the Sudan process of Ethiopia, I know what is too strong. If I have nearly 30 consecutive victories that directly reach Ladder TOP 1, I can’t convince you. What else can you convince you?
In this system of COYOTE in Ethiopia, it can not only be built, but also the units that can be mass -produced in the early days of military construction. Do you still worry about a large number of Gasceneya and Dervish, are you worried that you can’t win the EZ GAME?
I can see how its contradictory, let me clarify
I think its an option, I dont think its the best option or the standard option that china has. I was answering the response about the fact that melee hand infantry cant counter them
its decent if you mix it with cav, like with the black flag army but just the unit on it own is often pretty shit. I have argued before that the role of changdaos is similar to rods, as a cav support unit that can keep up with cav, tank melee for cav while the cav tank range in return, like how the lancer rod combo works.
But that is a very difficult comp to build for or to micro for and its often 3-4 control groups to use.
And china has an asnwer to the range infantry question when it comes to cav, its called double sided armour.
Look we can agree to nerf the gascenya dervisher combo first, whatever comes after we can discuss then
and taking 16% more hits is not big of a problem in a mass battle situation, cause they usually get soften up by range fire before coming into contact and note that it has 2 hp left after the “6” hits by pikes. like breakeven points are most critical in early even numbered fights when one extra hit can result in very lopsided results.
Thats why the uhlan hp was nerfed.
same to you
Like to both of you, I said I agree to nerf the gascenya +dervish combo, and big benny and maybe the shotel to 160 hp
I just think its not the beast you people are making it out to be
edit: and there is even a potential bigger elephant in the room that people are not thinking of an its in the picture, but there are also 5 abuns healing the army mid combat.
Those things are potentially a bigger problem then people give it credit for and can swing fights like hell.
edit edit: like a simple nerf to the abun is to make their mid combat heal like that of the monks in aoe 2, like only 10% if its within combat and full rate out of combat
They should just get rid of the variable ROF for the Gascenya and Dervish and that strategy would be a lot more reasonable.
I think they should also get rid of it for the Oromo Warrior. Leave their ROF at 4, but give them AOE damage like the Akan Ankobia. That would keep them unique but also make them not a totally useless unit.
This unit is fine. Yes, it isn’t so easy to counter with pikes, but age 2 cav isn’t just for fighting head on. The fact that they are a lancer makes them have low attack versus things that aren’t infantry. That makes them bad for raiding (which is often the primary function of age 2 cav) and fighting heavy cav.
This should be lowered to 75% fatness (675 food) that would make it more in line with an age 2 card.
A little more food on the starting cow would probably be enough.
I think the shadow-teching natives could also be slightly nerfed. Instead of shadow teching, they should be upgraded by the Elite Infantry and Elite Cavalry upgrades at the war camp. That would also make the Safari card a little better to get.
None of the weird unique mechanics have ever been fully removed since the beginning of the game so…
Maybe expect a “ROF boost” charged ability.
Maybe it could be good if shotel warriors have a 0.8x multiplier vs heavy infantry (cancelling out the 1.25x multiplier) so it would be more like a naginata style unit.
i have a lot of thoughts on ethiopia, honestly. i cant say im comfortable entirely with the livestock mechanics. you can get literally almost a shipment worth of wood with the click of a button. it just is so much rush potential. i find that ironic though, since with so many shadowtech units, you’d think it would be an ff or fi civ. I’m not sure of what solutions are available, honestly
The shotel is certainly not the issue at all with ethiopia, it’s a mediocre unit at best with zero upgrades and costs a lot of coin as well, also practically useless for traditional raiding due to it’s slow speed, both chimu and coyotes are far superior.
I’d say the gascenya isn’t either, it’s a low hp musk with 0.5 more speed and like +1 attack, costs more because requires wood too and with town militia sent they get 1 hit killed by town centre fire, it’s an incredibly expensive unit to lose in 1 shot, this isn’t a strelet lol.
The issue comes from the dervish, if it were just the 15 from age up and sending 700 influence it’d be fine, it’s that you make them up to the build limit of 15 (once, because after that it’s hard to stack influence) then even while at max build limit for dervish you can send the shipment of 12 and have 27 which for a strong native in age 2 it’s too much.
I suggested before that the dervish card respect the build limit so if you have more than 3 you can’t send it, then at the most you have 15 dervish to kill, once they’re gone they can’t be replaced quickly and then it’s just gascenya getting 1 shot kill by the TC.
yeah ok i saw them，thank you very much
Some Ethiopia’s balance changes checked in May PUP version:
1.The lower limit of gascenya range attack ROF is up to 2.5.
2.Sudanese: Training time increases to 30 second. Range resist decreases to 20%. Add 0.75 multiple to inflict skirmisher.
3.The initial food contain of prize bull reduces to 700.
Thanks DEV balance team. These changes almost solve the balance problem of Ethiopia. I’m very appreciated for your continuing efforts for better civilization balance.
Too much imo, ethiopia will disappear again now. All that was needed was to prevent the sudanese shipment in age 2 if it went over the build limit. Now because of 1 rush, gascenya have been nerfed when they were fine and the FF has been nerfed by changing the cow.
Rush was only op because of sudanese dervish overpop to 27 dervish when build limit was 15.
Ethiopia hasn’t been a good civ in supremacy for awhile until this new timing with dervish and gascenya, it’s now getting overnerfed again when a couple of small changes were enough.
Not enough imo, the op shotel warrior remains unchanged.
The shotel is a trash unit, slow af, very expensive, doesn’t even have a multiplier vs artillery. Chimu and coyote runner are far superior units, shotel has no upgrade cards either.
The problem that I see with Ethiopia, at least in treaty games, is that the horseman with javelin becomes too powerful, skirms literally have a hard time killing them, on the other hand the neftenya when it acquires siege resistance becomes another headache, hold on too much to the artillery,