European DLC (polls)

The day we get Scots, Welsh, Irish or whatever, I will delete aoe2 for ever. These civs had 0 impact in the Medieval world therefore they are not worthy to be in this game.

Welsh can have a different type of longbow and keep the current one to the Britons.

They arent changing an OG civ like that

Not a good comparison since there was nothing Romanians in Rome (even if there were Roman things in Romania) while the capital of the Kievan Rus was in Ukraine, the descendants of those people are the Ukranians in a way. Also the Ukranians have adopted the Kievan Rus icon.

Also Ukranians wont care about the Cossacks, they werent independent in the middle ages, arent exclusively Ukranian and arent as important for their national identity. Theres better options than Cossacks too, as thwere wwre some minor Ruthenian polities and Ukranians are the descendants of the Ruthenians

1 Like

There was nothing Ukrainian in the Kieven Rus either (there was no “Ukrainian tribe” back then, some people of the Rus eventually became the Ukrainians, in the same way some people of the Roman Empire eventually became the Romanians).

Some what I’ve seen, Ukrainains are proud of their Cossacks heritage and see it as something unique to their own. They see the Cossacks as the start of the modern Ukrainian state.

Although, I think we can both agree that the “Slavs” should be renamed to the “Rus”. They are already called Rus in AoE4.

3 Likes

Current Slavs to Rus and new civ called Kievns/Ruthenian with a Cossack uu?

1 Like

Kievan Rus or Ruthenians
You cannot just separate them like that :joy: . A new Don Cossack unit could be fine and access to Steppe Lancer with Boyar replacing knight

3 Likes

But Ruthenians (Ukranians) came from them :person_shrugging:

ANd unlike Cossacks, the Kievians or Ruthenians did stuff

Kind of… exactly like my comparison :person_shrugging:

Yes, but unlike Cossacks, the Belarusians and Russian can also claim to be the descendents of the Kievan Rus.

2 Likes

First of all, I would like to point out that the Cossacks fit the AoE 3 timeframe and not AoE 2. Under the date 1492, Cossacks-Christians are mentioned for the first time. Transnistrian and Transnistrian Cossacks, recruited mainly from Kiev, Niemirów, Vinnitsa, and Bar, were also called by their contemporaries Niżowce (the so-called Christian Cossacks). As time passed, they created a society applying the system of war democracy. They mainly included refugees from Lithuania, the Grand Duchy of Moscow, Moldavia, Wallachia and the Crown, who in the 15th century settled in the previously sparsely inhabited lands known as the Wild Fields. As a result of the Union of Lublin, Dzikie Pola (Wild Fields) became part of the Crown (Poland).

Secondly, the Cossacks were a group of people of various origins (although the dominant substrate were Ruthenians - mainly Ukrainians).

Thirdly, the Cossacks are divided into numerous subgroups: Zaporizhia (until 1775), Don, Kuban, Tera, Astrakhan, Ural (Jaic), Transylvania, Orenburg, Siberian, Zabaikal, Amur, Ussuri, Busko, Black Sea and Azov. The most Ukrainian Cossacks are the Zaporozhian Cossacks.

Instead of adding modern Cossacks to AoE2, it is much better to add units that really come from the Middle Ages, and in addition from the glory days of Kievan Rus!

Here is the unit proposal for Ruthenians civ (present civ Slavs):

Knyaz - an armored ax-sword that, unlike Throwing Axeman (Franks civ), does not throw the ax and the ax itself has one blade (Franks ax has two blades). He might also have a shield with the symbol of a Ruthenians civ (Yaroslav the Wise trident).

1 Like

They became the most notorious in AoE3, true, but they still existed in AoE2’s timeline. And while I 100% agree that they didn’t do anything of notice then, not even something worthy of a camapign, I still think they would mean a lot to the Ukrainians.

Because it’s a civ unique to their own. As opposed to the Kieven Rus that is shared by the Russians and Belarussians with.

The Cossaks are something Ukrainian, the Kieven Rus are not something only Ukrainian. Kind of like my Romania - Roman Empire comparison. Sure, the Romanians used to be the Romans, but it’s not like they are the only people who used to be the Romans.

The Rome comparison doesnt make sense here. Romania was conquered by Rome, Kiev meanwhile was (I know Im.saying something obvious) the capital of the Kievan Rus

2 Likes

Yes, Rome conquered Dacia. Romans moved into Dacia. Roman people had children with Dacian people. They made a people that spoke a broken latin, called Romanians. These Romanians would later form their own states. How is this the Romanians not being the descendants/continuity of Rome in some way?

About 70% of the Romanian vocabulary is latin. It’s kind of hard to be “anti-Rome” when you are what became of Rome.

“When they ask somebody whether they can speak Wallachian, they say: do you speak Roman? and [when they ask] whether one is Wallachian they say: are you Roman?”

It’s funny how “Romanian” was literally meant to mean “Roman”. But because the language changed with the arrival of the Goths, Gepids, Huns, Avars, Magyars, the word for “Roman” changed as well.

Domt get me wrong, I get it is important for your people, but so it is for most of Europe and Rome didmt have its roots nor most of the most important stuff in Dacia. Kiev did have its roots in Ukraine, and Ukranians are direct descendants of them (while Imm pretty sure in the case of Romanians there was a mix of peoples). For Ukranians its pretty close to what Rome represents for modern day Romans

1 Like

I see your point. But what if instead of Romanians were the Italians, would the fact that the Italians own Rome change anything? Having a “Roman Empire” civ represent the Italians would be pretty much the same as a Kievan Rus civ represent the Ukrainians in my opinion.

And yes, I may be kind of biased because of recent events in Ukraine, I’m not denying that, but at the same time I feel that the Kieven Rus civ doesn’t feel unique to their own. If anything, the way “Slavs” are represented in the game, it feels more Russian that Ukrainian.

Italians would have to “share” the Roman Empire civ with the: Portuguese, Spanish, Franks and Romanians. It wouldn’t feel uniquely Italian in my opinion.

Realistically the Frank should only have one blade as well :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

I know that. I meant the Frankish ax in the game.

if they throw pikemen, yes

Throwing Axemen are not as skilled as they real-life counterparts so they have to make sure they don’t hit the enemy with the back of their axe.