so two handed have the same attack as champs?
yes, and champs have +10 HP and +1 melee armor, with reduced upgrade cost and research time
btw this would also be an indirect buff to bulgarians and malays, who are definitely not top tier civs
my man if they could fix it so easily they would have done so… it takes some time, as i said before we need to think of help to the game which is easier to do than “magically fix pathfinding” . the pathfinding isnt intentionally bad…
+1PA isnt going to turn the sword line into archer killers… as i said FROM THE START, ive been using mali and even they get rekt by archers due to the terrible pathing… and thats with 1-3 extra PA… at 3 extra they seem to do ok… but anything lower and archers still easily counter them with micro…
but yeah maybe the extra damage would be enough, for the reasons you explained, in general too much counters infatry (like you said, heck even onagers counter infantry in a lot of conditions)… part of me has always been bothered that these troops with shields have less pierce armour than a lot of lighter looking troops… besides the whole archers rek infantry due to pathing issue
exactly… so thats why i recommended the PA buff… but a damage buff might work instead, either way, any buff will help…
malay are extremely deadly if you can get their meat grinder going though… ive had a number of games where 1 guy has gone from almost nothing in castle age to 1v2 the enemy just with the infinite 2HS +docks… and bulgarians arent exactly bottom tier either (as others have proven a few times the konnik can be amazing in the right circumstances)
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I know, that improving pathfinding is a long and continous fix, that’s why I said “it is also a really good buff before pathfinding gets fixed”
I agree, but I think that knights should be used against an archer civ either way not infantry
I also think malays are a really strong civ, but I don’t think it would be broken if their two-handed swordsman got a damage buff. Malays aren’t seen very much in high level tournamens anyways, in arena guess they’ll be top tier but there are always top tier civs in some maps.
Bulgarians use konniks too much, I actually would like if their infantry gets buffed
Militia-line is still underused despite the introduction of supplies. If you want to see more infantry, just consider that infantry is good when spammable and/or mobile in the game. So a bit of extra speed (like pikes maybe) and reduced TT (maybe locked behind supplies) would clearly help.
This would penalize some underused units, especially condos, which however need some other fix, possibly TG oriented. Also other infantry UUs like woad raiders may be penalized, but infantry civs would be helped but this small change.
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archers vs skirms, some archers will still die even if skirms win, same applies to spears vs knights(even more so here)
whereas archers vs infantry its quite possible to kill ALL the infantry without losing any archers, or such a negligible amount its not feasible… that is the issue, which i think so many people are missing… archers with micro should never (and have never) been intended to do so well vs infantry… if the pathing etc worked infantry would be more effective (STILL NOT A COUNTER) so we need solutions to make do with what we have (poor pathfinding)
on top of +1 damage (or +1 PA) i reckon the sword line should get 0.05 or 0.1 extra speed until the pathfinding is fixed… for worst case scenario, archer races will then be forced to speed bump infantry, as opposed to the current insanity of low critical mass archers rekking everything with impunity
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My suggestion is to reduce the upgrade time for this units because you have to upgrade a lot already starting from the feudal age.
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I guess a way to balance infantry would be to give a higher frame delay to archers so that they can’t hit and run as well as they do now. That would also be needed for unique archers.
Stop and move is too effective against melee units. When you look at the cav archer line you see that more frame delay changes a lot. This would be especially true in the case of archers as they are not faster than militia.
Also making sure archers can’t stack so close to each other would help so that there is more area for melee units to attack - also melee could then attack more units at once which would help the balance.
Another possible way to balance could be what many have already said:
- 0.05 more speed
- 0.2 range as partial fix to bad pathfinding and shorter attack animation like they did lately with hussar so that melee can catch up faster. Archers can move almost instantly after they stop and shoot which is a reason why they get hit less than they should --> same treatment for melee means they keep up with archers what they should do given they are slightly faster. But you still need more frame delay so that archers can’t keep the distance for too long while melee walks up to them.
- Check the upgrade cost of archers and militia. Militia costs so much more and takes more time to upgarde. One more reason why archers are favored.
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