Fan Design of a Potential New Italian civ

The Bersaglieri, singular Bersagliere, (Italian pronunciation: [bersaʎˈʎɛːri]), “sharpshooter”) are a speciality of the Italian Army’s infantry corps.

In the nineteenth century, Bersaglieri acted as skirmishers or shock troops, moving from place to place by running.

Wikipedia

They are definitely Skirmishers and not Line infantry aka Musketeers.

I think Dragoon like units should be Age 3 units.
Mounted Crossbows are cool though but I don’t think they should be standard.

My idea for Italy was:
Age 2: Renaissance units
Age 3: Napoleonic and 19th century units

This way Italy is less one dimensional.

I generally think it’s better to not copy the USA and Africans but to make a new unique system.
Only having one patron at once seems a more fitting system for the Italians.
It would be strange to have a colony that is supported by Venice and Genoa at the same time.

The Hausa already have that. I’d think a trade focused building would be more fitting for the Italians.
Both would be cool but that might get to complicated.

The “consulate” is for choosing your Italian patron not a foreign ally. That’s why it’s in “quotes”, it’s not an consulate but functions like one.

The Ally thing might be a nice idea.

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Yes, but if you keep reading they were also described as an highly mobile unit that were to close the distance fast or used to screen other units.

The main problem is that the distinction between skirmishers and line units isn’t that well represented in the game.

As a compromise, I made them as musketeers, but faster and available only in the third age (not in the second like musketeers) so they are a bit of both. Also, they didn’t use long distance rifles.

Another option is to made them as skirms, but with less range and ranged damage, but more resistance, speed and melee attack… I’m not sure of it though, it needs more thinking…

Yeah but they could be an exception, like the Russian or ottomans. Also, I gave them a standard dragon type of unit in the age 4 through an upgrade at the church, which replace the mounted xbows, so they have one.

And I thought it that way too, so I designed a way to have some archaic unit transformed or replaced with age ups.

Well, I had a different idea, one that you are a state that conquer or are conquered by another city state, either through military or diplomatic means.

Also, the Italians city and colonies often switched alliances or patronages, it’s kinda of how the wars were fought in the renaissance (and later on too…).

By my design, the Italians start as an archaic civ (like many see them) and then get modern units through age ups and focusing on certain build orders.

I don’t remember very well now the hausa, but I’ll look into it.

I gave the university to the Italians because they had founded the first university of the world and literally have a ton of them with a centuries of history.

Also, it’s not completely like the USA, the Italians would have tech and have to pay to get them.

Yeah I got it now. Still, I don’t like it too much, it limits the potential of the Italians.

The way I picture it, is a state that slow but steady conquer, ally, inglobate other states, until Italy is united.

Ok so after a lot of people pointed out that having discouted TP is OP, I changed it into having 50% discounted docks and markets.

This isn’t the definitive version anyway, and both the percentage and the buildings can still be changed.

There is another problem though…

I just saw the full release of the African civ and I noted (someone also pointed it out before) that the housa have a university building.

Now onestly I don’t know a lot about their history and culture, and I don’t want to talk it about it here. I still feel like the uni should be also an Italian building, since they founded the first university, and have lot of them with centuries of culture.

I also don’t know precisely how the housa uni works. From what I understood, it’s different a bit from what I suggested here.

So for now, I think that it could 2 “not completely shared but similar” buildings for both civs, but onestly, it’s a bit of bummer. The uniqueness of my design (which is old of months, and if I waited some days more I wouldn’t have posted it after seeing the DLC) revoved around the university.

Now they have still something unique, but not enough in my opinion…

I’ll continue the discussion since this design have some potential in my opinion, but I’ll need to think about this…

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What if rather than techs the benefit from your age up would be a passive bonus? For example

Italian explorers would. Get the 50% Los for free and pavise would be a stance for your xbows but they walk significantly slower while in the stance, like 30% slower but you gain an extra 15% range resist.

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It may work, but the problem stay in my opinion.

The Italians would loose their uniqueness that the uni would give them.

As I said a the start, my focus is yes on the balance and the mechanics, but it’s even more on the historical value that the those mechanics have.

Losing the uni, or having it shared with another civ, makes them a civ with a bit of everything from various other already existing civs. In my eyes that was fine before, since the uni justified it. Now I don’t know…

It could also work to rename one of the 2 buildings with a similar name, like academy (either the housa or the Italian uni, though on the latter it wouldn’t be really correct, and I’m not qualified to say if it would be appropriate for the former).

Yeah or it could affect one of their already existing stances. It could work too.

But I thought of those effects as tech so that even if some are powerful, they also are balanced by the cost.

Sorry for the delay between the last post and this one, but it takes time to think of these things, and I have few of it.

Those of course are all raw ideas, so are subjected to change.

But I listen to the general feedback, and I make their roster more based on the renaissance, with only 1 moder standard unit which is upgraded in age 4 from a renaissance unit. All other more modern units are either shipped or have need some sort of special upgrade.

AoE3 Italian Civilization Military Units

BARRACKS

II Age:
Crossbowman - Guard and Imperial upgrades unit. The guard upgrade can be researched an age earlier with a HC shipment. It also have a special tech at the church that replace the wood cost with a gold cost, but gives more a ranged multiplier against cav.
Pikeman - upgradable to veteran. Can get the guard upgrade too from an HC shipment.
Schiopettiere - unique musketeer, cheaper and with more speed and RoF, than the standard musketeer, but with worse stats overall, especially cavalry resistance and melee bonus. It’s upgraded into bersagliere. The unit model, should be like the carolean (not the stats), that when in melee, it draws a schiavona sword.

III Age:
Halbardier - standard guard upgrade.

IV Age:
Bersagliere - Guard and imp upgrade of the schiopettiere. It gains more melee and ranged attack, but it still have a low multiplier vs cav.

STABLES

II Age:
Mounted Crossbowman - Unique dragoon-like unit (ranged heavy cav). It have a slower RoF than a dragoon, but it have a good melee damage. If it’s put in “stand ground”, it trigger an animation where the crossbowman dismount, and fight on foot, until a command move. In this position, it’s RoF and range resistance greatly increase. Limited to the veteran upgrade, but an age up unlock the guard and imp upgrade.

III Age:
Condottieri - A tanky cavalry which is heavy on gold, armed with an hammer. Have a melee resistance and have a bonus damage in melee against other heavy cav. An HC shipment can unlock them in the second age.

FOUNDRY

III Age:
Petards - Standard
Falconets - Standard
Culverins - Standard

IV Age:
Mortars - Standard
Horse Artillery - Standard

FACTORY

IV Age:
Heavy Cannon - Standard

DOCK

II Age:
Galley instead of the caravel.
III Age:
Galeass instead of galleon - a stronger version of the galeon, but it takes more to be trained.

Other units that can be trained/shipped:
Swiss guard (swiss pikeman) - Trainable at the church and saloon after a tech.
Alpini (skirmishers) - Can be shipped from HC in age 4. They are skirmishers with a small resistance against artillery when put in stand ground.
Stradiot - The standard mercenary. Can be unlocked after an age up and trained at the stable for food and gold.
Hussar - Can be unlocked with an age up and shipped from HC.
Carabin Cavalry - A church upgrade transform all mounted crossbowmen into carabin cavalry.
Elmeti - with a HC shipment they can be trained at the stable.
Fusilier, jagers and Mamelukes are other mercenaries than can be shipped, with some kind of bonus, from the HC.

The DLC should also introduce a new mercenary, not unique to the Italians, but available to them, the Man at Arms a heavy infantry unit armed with a pavise and a hammer. It based on the maceman.

For the other civs, they should also get access to to a new mercenary, the Genoese Crossbowman, a xbow with more range resistance.

Tell me what do you think of it.

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The mounted crossbowman is a really cool idea! Unique unit that can be both Cav and on foot would be neat! And a Galeass in AOE3 would be very cool! We need some new ships :smile:

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maybe crossbows should be a guard unit? makes a lot of sense for italy i feel.

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It is a guard and imp unit.

Did I forgot to write it?

I slightly changed the condottieri. I didn’t liked the previous design much.

This way instead they are an anti heavy cavalry melee unit, with high HP. It can be decent against skirms and muskets too (with a HC card), but dies to dragoons and of course pikes.

The name condottieri too isn’t that accurate, but hey, it’s a fan favorite name, so it’s ok.

The xbows instead are generally called guard xbow and imp xbow. Probably some might want to call them genoese crossbowmen. I wanted to keep that name for a HC card, since it derived from a misconception that all mercenaries xbows from northern Italy were called genoese.

Still, once again, if it’s a fan favorite name, it may be used for the guard upgrade name. I for sure can call the HC card pisan or venetians xbows, or both, since all maritime republics used the weapons, with different methods and specialties.

The appearance if the guard upgrade should also bring a pavise to the xbow, though the upgrade can be researched apart, and it give a ranged resistance.

Economic Bonuses and Unique Buildings of the Italians:

Starting Resources:

  • 200 food
  • 200 wood
  • 100 gold
  • 6 vills

Market and Dock:
Italians have special markets and docks, with a unique appearance. They both cost 50% less, along with their economic upgrades. The market also have a 20% better buying/selling rate.

Università:
It works differently from the hausa university. It costs 300 wood, and have a build limit of 1, but it can be shipped a wagon in the I Age.
Is needed to research the unique age up techs.

Basilica:

So the Italians get 4 unique upgrades at the church (which is called basilica) without needing a HC shipment. Similarly to the swedes with the arsenal. The Italian church is called Basilica, it cost 200 wood and 150 gold.

AGE II

  • Professional Crossbowmen:
    Cost: free
    It replace the wood cost of the xbow with a gold cost. In exchange, the xbow trade the x2 multiplier against light cav with a x2 against heavy cav (against light cav, xbows get a x1 multiplier).

  • Swiss Papal Guard:
    Cost: 500 gold
    It ships 5 papal guards (renamed swiss pikemen). It also enables the training of papal guards from the church, at 120 gold each.

Age III

  • Golden Bill:
    Cost: free
    Markets have a +10% better buying/selling rate, but gold is gathered 15% slower from all mines.

Age IV:

  • Modernization:
    Cost: 1500 food
    Transform all MC into special guard mounted carabiners. The unit gain more attack when mounted, but lose the ability to dismount.

The appearance of the university, church, dock and market should be unique:

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I don’t quite understand what’s the appeal you see on just giving the civ random percentage discounts on techs, it still feels like you’re trying to design an Age of Empires 2 civilization.

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Dude, they are just numbers…

It’s a way to write something. You can write them down in percentages like on aoe2, or in multiplier like aoe3, but the thing is the same.

When you get a card that reduce the cost of a building is it too much aoe2? Sweden literally as a bonus just have a free HC shipment (advanced arsenal). France have vills that gather fast, you can either write it with a percentage or a multiplier, it it would be the same.

I did a really similar thing to the swedes with the church and the market.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to give them a super unique bonus, but I suggest that their houses gather resources, they call me crazy and label the civ OP.

But if you have better idea fell free to suggest them.

New Revolution for the Italian civ

This revolutions are made in case the Italians would get a standard revolution, like the other european powers. I also hypothesized an Alliance sistem. I’ll post further ahead if this won’t work.

Greece:

The venetians and genoans had colonies in the Mediterranean, Aegean and Black Sea for centuries. In the the more modern years, the kingdom of Italy had control over the Dodecanese, so Greece is the revolution that made more sense, and it could be given to the ottomans too.

Home City:
Athens

Effects:

  • All vills are transformed into klefties (revolutionary) soldiers that gain gold instead of XP when they kill a unit or destroy a building. They can still gather from crates.
    Cost: 100 food and 1 pop
  • Churches allow you buy mercantilism as many times as you want, which also cost less (500 gold).
  • Ship 7 stradiots and 1 ironclad.

HC Shipments:

  • 9 stradiots
  • 11 klefties and a church wagon
  • 1000 gold
  • 2 li’l bombard
  • 10 cretan archers (reskinned desert archers)

Eritrea:

The kingdom of Italy had the colony of Eritrea, which was basically the etiopian region on the red sea, named Eritrea by the Italians.

Home City:
Asmara

Effects:

  • TCs periodically spawn cattle.
  • All vills are transformed into levied gunners, which don’t lose HP over time.
  • Ships a cattle market and 2 cattle. Cattle can be sold for XP other than wood and gold.

HC Shipments:

  • Somali 11 darood militia + 9 issa warriors
  • 4 sebastopol mortars
  • 6 cattle
  • 4 gatling camels
  • 1 ras

Another Italian revolution could be the Barbary State. Italians had Libia as a colony, so it make sense to be it’s revolutionary state.

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Greece definitely needs ironclads, 1 of the things the greeks did well was naval stuff once they got free from the ottomans.

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I gave them a frigate because I felt that alongside the stradiots, an ironclad might be too much.

But if you think that it’s not too strong, I can change it.

hmm, it seems kinda underwhelming not gonna lie, at the very least they need to be able to ship ironclads from the homecity because otherwise their navy is the same other than you spent 3000 resources for a single ship.

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Well, I took it for granted that you can ship ironclads, like you can ship forts or similar things. All the most common HC revolution cards can be added.

I indicated only 4 unique shipments for each revolution, but they can have more standard ones too.

Anyway, I changed it. The rest is ok?

It could be an improvement for all civilizations with crossbowmen. To convert this infantry unit into a cavalry / infantry unit at the same time.

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Other civs may get a HC card that transform all present xbows into MC, but not being able to train them.

The MC is a unique unit, much like the ruyter, or the hakkapelit, so it should be trainable only by the Italians.

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