Fan Design of a Potential New Italian civ

An architect could be an economic unit (like the Settler Wagon in Germans civ). This unit would build buildings faster, but it would not be able to mine resources. It would be an expensive unit with a limit of 3. It would use a dagger to defend itself.

Interesting ideas, but it would be strange for the Merchant to extract raw materials - after all, he was selling them. Unless it would make the Merchant a unit with which Settlers would increase efficiency. Additionally, this unit could build Markets and Docks. It would be possible to train in the Market. He could also automatically walk through the Markets of allies, thus generating Coins or XP. There could also be a maritime counterpart of such a unit - a Merchant Ship (analogous unit - increasing the efficiency of marine resource prospectors, generating Coins and XP when automatically visiting the Docks and ability to build Docks) which would be trainable at the Docks - 3 Units limit.

I think that the Statue could be the default European building - after all, it was erected not only in Italy. For any European civ, it could be based on its most famous statue. It could generate XP and increase the efficiency of buildings and units nearby.

What is this mechanic about because this is the first time I hear about it? Sounds interesting.

Incidentally, the Mafia theme could be an intriguing and fascinating advertisement for this civ.

While waiting for Mafia 4, I would be playing AoE 3 :joy:

Yeah, it could build faster and gather from crates.

I would make it incapable of attack. It stay at home at building and gathering, not helping the explorer at gathering resources.

Also, if it can attract, it would be better at rushes. And it should be a HC unit only.

A merchant could also be an artisan that sell its expertise and products into the markets. The merchant class wasn’t exactly what people usually think of.

It’s not necessary.

Read carefully, I don’t use the merchant-architect sistem of WoL.

But it would be a mechanic limited to TG, and not useful in 1v1.

The WoL mod used it.

If you think that being part of a culture that is identified only by its organized crime that plague it even nowadays is “fun”

Italy is more than just mafia… I don’t see the cinese designed around the triad or the Japanese around the jakuza.

Frankly… if the Italians (but any potential civ) will be based around the organized crime, I won’t buy the DLC with such civ…

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Random ideas I just had concerning Italians, perhaps you’ll like some of it…
Since most Italian armies where mercenary forces at the time with ever changing loyalties what if the Italian explorer was an Condottiero instead of it being another regular unit? It could have cards and abilities that affect mercenaries and perhaps could train mercenaries itself or receive merc shipments?

Then for the age up mechanic. I’m sorry to say but I don’t think just giving them the african age up mechanic is a good idea. European factions have basically 1 unique mechanic, it would feel bad to have a new EU faction and then have their unique mechanic just be something other factions allready had. I propose a slight alteration that might just keep the spirit of what you suggested:

5 age up factions: Florence, Milan, Naples, Venice and the Papal States. Each with an age up bonus like resource crates etc. And then a passive ability, like allowing a certain unit to be build or a passive effect.
The chosen state doesnt get disabled for the next round of age ups, but all the other increase the power of the shipment you’d receive while the allready chosen one remains at the power it previously had. This would suggest the other states increasing their payment offer for your mercenary company? You’d retain the special units you’d have allready built from the state but would lose the ability to produce more when switching.
for example the Papal states could increase you church limit and increase their XP trickle as a passive, when switching out you retain the extra churches but lose the increased trickle.

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I had a similar idea, but through the usual european HC shipment for the explorer.

My idea was:

  • Capitani di Ventura/Condottieri - upgrades your explorer to capitano/condottiero (+50% HP and attack) and allow the explorer to train xbows, pikes and schiopettieri in the II Age. In the III age they can also train the cavalry units.

I didn’t make it train mercenaries because I felt that it was too strong (especially on the II age). Also, pikes, xbows and arquebus, so it would better represent the renaissance.

The states should substitute the politicians, so it would work very similar to them. Each state would give you crates, upgrades, units. The only difference is that it would also unlock techs for the uni.

So like, you can choose 4 times the papal state just for retain the same effect?

Isn’t it better to just offer another state in substitution of the one used the age earlier? That’s what I meant for “like the african civ”.

Because the US have 5 different states for each age up, the Asian instead have the same 5 age ups for each age, and the chosen ones are simply disabled.

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Yes, but the other four will increases their rewards to tempt you to change allegiance to them. While the Papal states will still ship the same as they did before when aging up with them again. They will start increasing their offers again when the player selects a different state. So to gain optimal rewards picking a different one each time will give the most bang for you buck so to speak.

Is that not exactly the same as the African civs really? crates, new units and new techs in their special building.

Mmm I like it, but onestly, I don’t think that I would stay with the same state for more than an age.

If the other offer more something different, but of an higher value, it’ll still be worth with 4 other choices to choose something else.

If the same faction, would offer at least a bit more then before, or the same as before, but with something different, then I might consider, but it needs to stay competitive, otherwise basically you make Italians as an Asian Civ (practically, you can’t choose the same age up twice…).

Though, you can alternate 2 different age ups, since a suppose that if for example I choose Venice for the age II, then Genoa for the age III, in the age IV Venice will increase his offer than the age III.

Yeah, the tech needs a bit of a rework, unfortunately, this design was prior the african civ release, I’m still working on making it more original…

Still, the techs and the civ in general would be very different.

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Now that you type it out like that I guess its actually quite a lot like the native american age up as well. Maybe a state that you picked previously and then replaced could increase its rewards more than the others or something?

It could be… but I still prefer a sistem that replace the state chosen. At least that way you have more possibilities explore better Italian history.

The biggest problem, is the uni sistem.

At the moment is there as a place holder (I still make the single techs, and the civ way more different that what it appears) but it needs something more unique…

No matter what system you choose to go with, you will always have to make cuts. Unless you go with a USA style system but as you said you’ll be scraping the bottom of the barrel for inclusions then.
The beauty of AOE3 imo, is the card system. We’ve seen in the recent faction additions a wide style of cards. And cards is the perfect place for historical referencing. Any state that didnt make it into your age up line up (haha) can be referenced by one or two cards and so still be present in your creation.

Another possibility might be a allegiance system. Picking between France, the Habsburg or the Italian city states each age up. Im just throwing random ideas at the wall right now really. France, Austria, Spain and even the Ottomans might be viable options as ageup allies as well should you go more USA style. 20 options are hard to come by, but with the USA style of states and then the University tech style you’ll get something in between Africa and the USA perhaps?

That was already considered. I had a list of potential HC cards, most referred to historical events, landmarks, and facts.

Yeah, I thought of something similar too, but it’s too similar to the Asian consolate in my opinion.

Another idea might be to use instead of politicians, notable renaissance figures, like Lorenzo De Medici, Macchiavelli, Leonardo Da Vinci, Bartolomeo Colleoni, Sforza and such.

This would work very similarly to the standard politicians, but they would reward you more. A bit like the aoe2 italians, who get bigger powerspikes when aging up (in aoe2, you save resources, here you get more).

The advantage may be, that unlike the other civs, that get their age ups rewards when they hit the next age, you here het them when you click for the next age. If for example an age up gives you 400 wood, you get the crates after clicking, not when you reach the age.

That though, pose the problem of what happens if you cancel the age up…

Sorry for the delay again, but as you know, doing those things require time, and so I can’t post too frequently.

So, as you can still read in the original post, the original idea was to give the Italians unique age ups by choosing an Italian city, which consequently would give you unique techs at the university. Unfortunately, this was an old design before the hausa were released, so now I design a new age up method.

Basically, when you age up with italians, you don’t get units or crates, but buildings wagon and HC shipments, which are immediately shipped when you age up. Most of those HC cards are the advanced buildings cards (the yellow ones), other are still buildings carts. Those cards in general makes your buildings tougher, cheaper and more efficient.

This method is inspired by the famous Italian architecture in the renaissance.

From the start:

  • Have the advanced market card already unlocked.

CITIES:

From Age I:

Venice:

  • Ship a dock wagon.
  • Unlock the cheap dock and advanced dock cards.

Genoa:

  • Ship an outpost wagon.
  • Unlock extensive fortifications, coastal defenses and cheap outposts.

Florence:

  • Ship a bank wagon.
  • Unlock stonemasons and tulip speculation cards.

Milan:

  • Ship a blockhouse wagon and an arsenal wagon.
  • Unlock the advanced arsenal and theaters cards.

Rome:

  • Ship a church wagon. Increases the church build limit of 1.
  • Unlock cheap church and master surgeons cards.

From Age II:

Bologna:

  • Ship a university wagon.
  • Unlock improved buildings and advanced trading posts cards.

From age III:

Palermo:

  • Ship a mill wagon and an estate wagon.
  • Unlock advanced mills and advanced estates cards.

From Age IV:

Naples:

  • Ship a fort wagon.
  • Unlock castramentation and heavy fortifications cards.

Of course, you can still put those cards into your deck, and ship them normally (like, if a specific build order doesn’t include that age up, but you need that card, you can still have it). If you send it, of course then you don’t have any benefits from the age up, viceversa, if you already get the card from the age up, it simply seems like it has already been sent.

There are some exceptions though. As you can see, some cities can give you cards belonging to other civilisations (like british cheap docks). Those cards cannot be included into the Italians HC decks, and can be obtained only through that specific age up.

Almost all age ups (but Naples and Palermo, which I felt like were already strong enough) gives you a unique building or HC card that doesn’t belong to your civilization. Some examples are the cheap docks, outposts, churches, or getting the university, blockhause or bank with tulip speculation.

Also, after aging up, you get a determinated amount of XP in the form of book crates. This is indipendent from the city you choose, and it’s proportional to the age. Something like:
Age II - 400XP
Age III - 800XP
Age IV - 1200XP
Age V - 2000XP

NOTE: Italians university generate just XP, and it work with a sphere of influence similar to the hausa one, and the buildings that boost the XP generation are TCs, TPs, markets and churches. The building can also train surgeons and have of course a different appearance.
It of course can’t choose to generate influence and research techs.

This is of course subjective to change. Let me know what you think of this meccanic and if you like it or not.

This isn’t the only idea that I have for an unique Italian age up, when I’ll have the time for perfecting those too, I’ll post them here.

INCRIVEL MUITO BEM DETALHADO

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To give you a better idea of what the cards given by the age ups do, here is a list of the effects:

From the start:

  • Markets get +20% buy/sell rates.

Venice:

  • Docks have 100% HP, heals ships 100% faster and train ships in 33% less time.
  • Dock cost 25% less and their improvements cost less wood.

Genoa:

  • Outposts (and blockhause) get +25% HP and +6 build limit.
  • Outposts cost 30% less.
  • Defensive buildings get +1 multiple against ships.

Florence:

  • Settlers build 65% faster.
  • Banks generate gold 20% faster.

Milan:

  • Unlock the unique upgrades at the arsenal.
  • Transform taverns into theaters, which unlock ronins and allow to train outlaws for -2 pop.

Rome:

  • Churches cost 80% less and their standard improvements cost less.
  • Surgeons can be trained at churches and heals 50% more.

Bologna:

  • TPs get a range attack, have 50% HP and cost 40% less.
  • Buildings get +40% HP.

Palermo:

  • Mills get +100% HP and cost 50% less.
  • Estates +100% HP and cost 31% less.

Naples:

  • Grants all defensive building upgrades.
  • The explorer can build forts.

More info at:

I think that this is a nice way of getting use of certain cards that usually are never included in the deck.

NOTE: Team cards included in this list are considered standard cards, and apply only to the Italian player.

There was also another idea, which was the the Italians from the Age I would start already with the Advanced Market card effect by default.

This was because my feeling was that giving to the venetians 2 buildings and 3 cards to the venetians was too much.

But separating the advanced dock and cheap docks didn’t seem a good idea, and then the venetians age up would lack its unique aspect.

On the other side, having the age up also shipping a market and the advanced market still doesn’t seems not OP, and I wanted that the age up wasn’t useless on pure land maps.

Anyway, in this scenario the Italians civ would appear like this:

By default from Age 1:

  • Have Advanced Market card already shipped.

By choosing to age up with Venice:

  • Get a dock wagon.
  • Unlock cheap docks and advanced docks cards.

Other age ups are unchanged.

An option could be that they also start with a market wagon along with the advanced market card.

Instead of locking main roster units behind a patron, could the Italians get different permanent mercenaries at the Tavern, or even more radically, different Royal Guard Units, depending on their patron? Sure, give one or two different technologies each. Keep in mind that say, the US, whose mechanics OP really likes for his own civ, still adds two bonus Factory Shipments to its deck regardless of which State is taken for the age-up. There has to be a consistent and universal bonus for taking any option at the Consulate.

They could replace the Capitol and Market with a Palazzo, which does everything those buildings do, plus the patron mechanic.

A Piazza building that works something like the Community Plaza of the NW Natives might be worth a shot, that unlocks different “dances”/“commissions” based on the patron chosen–and MUST be built directly adjacent to either a Basilica or Palazzo.

You can still do what the Indians did with taking the Mughals as the blueprint and adding flavor from other places. Just take KPS, add other ■■■■, and call them “Italians”, not “Kingdom of Italy”. Turin is fine as a Home City, but with the decline of Venice over the course of the modern era, and the inland nature of some major cities, Trieste might instead be the best choice considering how cosmopolitan it was during this time. If you’re concerned about Hapsburg stuff, why not also just make the German HC Potsdam or something.

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If I can try to make them an historically accurate state, why not trying?

Why make it a stupid umbrella civ so then you get people who complain about it, like they complain for the germans or Indians?

There isn’t just the moder era. The game starts in the late renaissance, when Venice was still a respectful power, that kept fighting with the ottomans for about another 2 centuries, and it still prospered through trade every time that the english and the French fought in the Atlantic.

Trieste can be an excellent age up for the 4th or 5th age, while Venice a good age up for the 2nd or 3rd age.

Was there a Alliance of all or most Italian city States? In AoE 3 timeline?

not really, at least nothing the level of the holy roman empire.

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Italy unified in 1871 so yes at the end of the period. It was through the steady expansion of the Kingdom of Sardinia, so following the USA/Mexico model of aging up with federal states would make sense as a way to represent the process of unification.

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Yes,there were sporadic alliances between the Italian city-states during the Italian Wars (1494-1559),the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648),the Napoleonic Wars (1789-1815) and the Italian Risorgimiento (1815-1871)…then it could be divided into five ages:

  1. Exploration Age (1494-1559) (The Italian Renaissance and the Italian Wars)

  2. Commerce Age (1559-1618) (The Counter-Reformation)

  3. Fortress Age (1618-1789) (The Thirty Years’ War and the rest of European Wars)

  4. Industrial Age (1789-1815) (The Napoleonic Wars)

  5. Imperial Age (1815-1871) (The Italian Risorgimiento and the final unification of Italian peninsula)

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