Farm/Queuing: Suggestion to make everybody Happy

About the endless arguments over Farm

Why not the following :

Lets say a Farm cost 70 to reseed.
Why not let the choice for automatic reseed, but where each farm would cost 80 ? (administrative fee)
Same for villagers : Why not make a single villager at a time cost 50, and queued villager cost 55 ?

You have the basic idea.
So if you want comfort, you play it with a little fee.
But the guy who will spend his APM (its a kind of resource) to make everything by himself, will have a save a little wood.

So basically you can either spend more APM or more Wood.
This way, it become a totally strategic choice.
When you have a little economy and that 10wood is important, you will choose to do it yourself.
And when you’ll have a very big economy with plenty of ressource everywhere you can go for the automatic.

So the game become fun for everyone !

While it can work with farm (which is a very specific queue) i believe that adding a fee on unit queueing is bad.

I think his main point here is about farm and that’s a good idea.

I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

@kinzo said:
While it can work with farm (which is a very specific queue) i believe that adding a fee on unit queueing is bad.

Yes. Agree on that one. Unit que is a time-saving thing, but there is no alternative in creating units. Queuing farms has an economic advantage over other sources of food gathering, that’s my main problem with it.

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

if you dont queue farm alreaey you wont have any harm
i dont see what is the problem you have.
if some people want to queue anyway, let them but make them pay a fee for that.

what you say abput queuing is true in the early game but you know that at some point in the game everyone ends up having tons of woods. even pros.

because the game is about “waves” of army. you have your 200pop you dont produce anything wood accumulate, so it makes no difference in term of ressource to queue or not queue.

but if you add a tax on queuing… it becomes more interesting.

@Tgaud said:

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

if you dont queue farm alreaey you wont have any harm
i dont see what is the problem you have.
if some people want to queue anyway, let them but make them pay a fee for that.

what you say abput queuing is true in the early game but you know that at some point in the game everyone ends up having tons of woods. even pros.

because the game is about “waves” of army. you have your 200pop you dont produce anything wood accumulate, so it makes no difference in term of ressource to queue or not queue.

but if you add a tax on queuing… it becomes more interesting.

Good players will never have tons of wood in the bank. They would delete or retask woodcutters long before that happens. Resources that sit in the bank are useless and good player would just use them to make more buildings to pump out more units. And if there’s no population room, they would delete villagers to make room for those units. There’s no need for villagers if the resources they gather would just sit in the bank doing nothing.

And good player won’t make waves of army. That’s how beginners tend to play. Good players will produce units constantly and send them to fight right away. Military units that are just sitting around not fighting are a waste of resources and population space.

Good players are already at a great advantage being able to spend their resources efficiently instead of having them sit in the bank. I don’t think poor players should be punished further by taxing them for using QoL features that are already a disadvantage to begin with.

@qweytr24 said:

@Tgaud said:

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

if you dont queue farm alreaey you wont have any harm
i dont see what is the problem you have.
if some people want to queue anyway, let them but make them pay a fee for that.

what you say abput queuing is true in the early game but you know that at some point in the game everyone ends up having tons of woods. even pros.

because the game is about “waves” of army. you have your 200pop you dont produce anything wood accumulate, so it makes no difference in term of ressource to queue or not queue.

but if you add a tax on queuing… it becomes more interesting.

Good players will never have tons of wood in the bank. They would delete or retask woodcutters long before that happens. Resources that sit in the bank are useless and good player would just use them to make more buildings to pump out more units. And if there’s no population room, they would delete villagers to make room for those units. There’s no need for villagers if the resources they gather would just sit in the bank doing nothing.

And good player won’t make waves of army. That’s how beginners tend to play. Good players will produce units constantly and send them to fight right away. Military units that are just sitting around not fighting are a waste of resources and population space.

Good players are already at a great advantage being able to spend their resources efficiently instead of having them sit in the bank. I don’t think poor players should be punished further by taxing them for using QoL features that are already a disadvantage to begin with.

just look sc2 player that is the most high level multiplayer rts at the moment.
i watched tournaments for days.
its not rare for pro to gather until 6000 ressource
and wait for their army to have a critical mass and the good position to engage.

its clear now that you dont know what you are talking about.

ressource reparition is one thing.
(not to gather too much of one when u need the other) but “bank” is part of the game. especially late game.
its what make you able to recreate your army in a blink of an eye after a mutual annihilation.

your theory make sense while you dont reach max population.

but you make a mistake thinking that pro will launch their army as soon as it is produced.

position is important, timing, mass…
you can see player going up and backward for entires minutes before finding the good approach that will get their army victorious.

typically if you launch your army while the ennemy has a perfect concave you will lost

you are doing ideology… but the facts give you wrong.

sending your units one by one so they are facing 1v10 each time is the noob way to play.
pro will never begin a fight if he is under numbered.
and neither begin a fight if he is not in a position to hurt badly the opponent.
sending one army unit alone as soon as its produced is the best way to lose it and to warn your ennemy about your strategy

@Tgaud said:

@qweytr24 said:

@Tgaud said:

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

@qweytr24 said:
I don’t like this idea. Queueing units or farms already provides a disadvantage, as resources used in advance for queued items would pretty much always be better used to something else immediately. This is significant enough that in AoE2 pro players never queue any farms and almost never queue more than two units in each building.

if you dont queue farm alreaey you wont have any harm
i dont see what is the problem you have.
if some people want to queue anyway, let them but make them pay a fee for that.

what you say abput queuing is true in the early game but you know that at some point in the game everyone ends up having tons of woods. even pros.

because the game is about “waves” of army. you have your 200pop you dont produce anything wood accumulate, so it makes no difference in term of ressource to queue or not queue.

but if you add a tax on queuing… it becomes more interesting.

Good players will never have tons of wood in the bank. They would delete or retask woodcutters long before that happens. Resources that sit in the bank are useless and good player would just use them to make more buildings to pump out more units. And if there’s no population room, they would delete villagers to make room for those units. There’s no need for villagers if the resources they gather would just sit in the bank doing nothing.

And good player won’t make waves of army. That’s how beginners tend to play. Good players will produce units constantly and send them to fight right away. Military units that are just sitting around not fighting are a waste of resources and population space.

Good players are already at a great advantage being able to spend their resources efficiently instead of having them sit in the bank. I don’t think poor players should be punished further by taxing them for using QoL features that are already a disadvantage to begin with.

just look sc2 player that is the most high level multiplayer rts at the moment.
i watched tournaments for days.
its not rare for pro to gather until 6000 ressource
and wait for their army to have a critical mass and the good position to engage.

its clear now that you dont know what you are talking about.

ressource reparition is one thing.
(not to gather too much of one when u need the other) but “bank” is part of the game. especially late game.
its what make you able to recreate your army in a blink of an eye after a mutual annihilation.

your theory make sense while you dont reach max population.

but you make a mistake thinking that pro will launch their army as soon as it is produced.

position is important, timing, mass…
you can see player going up and backward for entires minutes before finding the good approach that will get their army victorious.

typically if you launch your army while the ennemy has a perfect concave you will lost

you are doing ideology… but the facts give you wrong.

sending your units one by one so they are facing 1v10 each time is the noob way to play.
pro will never begin a fight if he is under numbered.
and neither begin a fight if he is not in a position to hurt badly the opponent.
sending one army unit alone as soon as its produced is the best way to lose it and to warn your ennemy about your strategy

AoE is not SC. I have watched a lot of matches between the best AoE2 players and none of them ever keep that much resources in bank. If one player banks 6000 resources while the other spends them on units the one with the units will win.

And when I say they will send the units to fight as soon as the units are created, I don’t mean that they send them head first into a much bigger enemy army. That would be just madness. What I mean is that they always use their military units in a meaningful manner.

If the armies are equal in power, they will build them up while scouting and keeping an eye on the enemy army to make sure it won’t try an attack on the flank. But if the population cap has been reached, there’s no reason to wait, as you can’t make your army any larger anymore. But there will never be a “mutual annihilation”. Good players will have forward buildings to replenish losses and to always stay at the population limit even during the big battles. There will never be a period when you have to build your army back from scratch, as good players will train units all the time and keep their army always at the pop cap.

If one army is stronger than the other, the stronger one tries to attack, while the weaker one will either try to defend or try to circle around the enemy to attack on the rear and force their army back to defend. There will always be an use for additional units and even if the population limit has been reached there is no reason to wait and bank resources.

@LegoVogel said:

@kinzo said:
While it can work with farm (which is a very specific queue) i believe that adding a fee on unit queueing is bad.

Yes. Agree on that one. Unit que is a time-saving thing, but there is no alternative in creating units. Queuing farms has an economic advantage over other sources of food gathering, that’s my main problem with it.

Same here. Making villies cost 55 to queue is insanity. Farms are…more understandable, just for the comfort + wood --> food conversion factor, and the abundant nature of wood in AoE.

Still, imo, punishing slower-APM players isn’t something that should be coded into the game in terms of unit costs…The strategic aspect of the game should take care of that. I don’t think this solution is the right one, but we’re getting there.

the problem is that i dont want the level to master AOE to be lowered and casualized because some ppl doesnt have APM.

im against farm queing. i was just trying to find a compromise.
but all the new generation of lazy casual player is trying to find a new game to destroy with casualization.

“oh no the ennemy has more APM its unfair”

well, train.

“oh no i forgot to rebuild a farm its unfair”

“oh no i have to moove my mouse its unfair”

seriously. ppl lile that should just not play aoe and go for an RTS for Dummies.
it seriously ■■■■ me off to wait for 20years the game of my life, lile many others, and see it wasted to become a clone of others modern RTS on mechanics.

so lets just stick to what AOE was and have it remastered technically with new graphics new music and some improvment like rally points that doesnt remove anything.

like someone said : someone gathering his food from the sea will have a big disadvantage against farms because he will have to move his fish boat that will cost APM while the farming guy will just have to queue.

@Tgaud said:
the problem is that i dont want the level to master AOE to be lowered and casualized because some ppl doesnt have APM.

im against farm queing. i was just trying to find a compromise.
but all the new generation of lazy casual player is trying to find a new game to destroy with casualization.

“oh no the ennemy has more APM its unfair”

well, train.

“oh no i forgot to rebuild a farm its unfair”

“oh no i have to moove my mouse its unfair”

seriously. ppl lile that should just not play aoe and go for an RTS for Dummies.
it seriously ■■■■ me off to wait for 20years the game of my life, lile many others, and see it wasted to become a clone of others modern RTS on mechanics.

so lets just stick to what AOE was and have it remastered technically with new graphics new music and some improvment like rally points that doesnt remove anything.

like someone said : someone gathering his food from the sea will have a big disadvantage against farms because he will have to move his fish boat that will cost APM while the farming guy will just have to queue.

AoE:DE is not only a remaster, but also a remake. It’s 2 games in 1. I disagree with your fervent gatekeeping here - new players should be able to pick up and enjoy the game. It’s been 20 years since AoE came out, and games have advanced a lot in that time. AoE was a blind man (Blind Lame Priest, anyone?) feeling it’s way through the darkness to light to torch for others to follow. It arguably kickstarted RTS games in the mainstream. I think it’s ridiculous for you to expect the devs to change nothing but the graphics. That simply wouldn’t sell very well nowadays, I think, nor would it attract new customers (games are a business…). AoE:DE isn’t going to be “lowered” or “casualized”. It’s like the 10th time that I tell you this, but seriously, Classic Mode is in the game because the devs are aware that their changes won’t sit well with everyone. If that isn’t indicative that there will be mechanics changes, then I don’t know what is. Too bad if you don’t like it, but there’s always Classic Mode.

@RWNorthPole said:

@Tgaud said:
the problem is that i dont want the level to master AOE to be lowered and casualized because some ppl doesnt have APM.

im against farm queing. i was just trying to find a compromise.
but all the new generation of lazy casual player is trying to find a new game to destroy with casualization.

“oh no the ennemy has more APM its unfair”

well, train.

“oh no i forgot to rebuild a farm its unfair”

“oh no i have to moove my mouse its unfair”

seriously. ppl lile that should just not play aoe and go for an RTS for Dummies.
it seriously ■■■■ me off to wait for 20years the game of my life, lile many others, and see it wasted to become a clone of others modern RTS on mechanics.

so lets just stick to what AOE was and have it remastered technically with new graphics new music and some improvment like rally points that doesnt remove anything.

like someone said : someone gathering his food from the sea will have a big disadvantage against farms because he will have to move his fish boat that will cost APM while the farming guy will just have to queue.

AoE:DE is not only a remaster, but also a remake. It’s 2 games in 1. I disagree with your fervent gatekeeping here - new players should be able to pick up and enjoy the game. It’s been 20 years since AoE came out, and games have advanced a lot in that time. AoE was a blind man (Blind Lame Priest, anyone?) feeling it’s way through the darkness to light to torch for others to follow. It arguably kickstarted RTS games in the mainstream. I think it’s ridiculous for you to expect the devs to change nothing but the graphics. That simply wouldn’t sell very well nowadays, I think, nor would it attract new customers (games are a business…). AoE:DE isn’t going to be “lowered” or “casualized”. It’s like the 10th time that I tell you this, but seriously, Classic Mode is in the game because the devs are aware that their changes won’t sit well with everyone. If that isn’t indicative that there will be mechanics changes, then I don’t know what is. Too bad if you don’t like it, but there’s always Classic Mode.

too bad if you dont like it but there is always other modern new fluffy RTS.

age of empire 1 had the recipe for fun. so dont come with the “I know everything” cocky spirit to make age of empire 1 another failure like every other modern RTS that all pretend to be so good but failed.

ok for stuff lile rallypoint. but changing the game itself with stuff like queing sorry but no.
its age of empire1 remake. its not “age of empire 4 : stone age edition”

you will be free to make a fanpatch after “lazy people extension”

@Tgaud said:

too bad if you dont like it but there is always other modern new fluffy RTS.

Don’t like what? You’re the one who seems to be having more issues with liking things.

age of empire 1 had the recipe for fun. so dont come with the “I know everything” cocky spirit to make age of empire 1 another failure like every other modern RTS that all pretend to be so good but failed.

You clearly just seem to hate all RTS games except for the original Age of Empires. “Fun” is

  1. Subjective, and
  2. Not a recipe
    Also, cocky spirit? Wanting to modernize the game and make it more accessible isn’t me being cocky, or being a know-it-all. Your condescending attitude isn’t helping the legitimacy of your accusations, either, and honestly it seems like you’re projecting. You seem very triggered by anything resembling change - why even bother with a remaster?

ok for stuff lile rallypoint. but changing the game itself with stuff like queing sorry but no.

Rise of Rome has queuing. AoE:DE will be based off of the UPatch (RoR included). You won’t like it from the get-go.

its age of empire1 remake. its not “age of empire 4 : stone age edition”

Yes, it’s a remake. You said it yourself. They will be changing the game.

you will be free to make a fanpatch after “lazy people extension”

No thanks, I’m quite fine playing an updated, remastered AoE. I’m fine with the original game, too - hence why I still play it. But I would like some QoL, 21st century changes.

What is more important than queuing: It should be possible to walk over your farms like in AoE II… I remember the pain I had when placing like 15 farms… Villagers always got stuck between my farms, even if I let enough space for 2 units between the farms…

@DRNKNNidhoeggr said:
What is more important than queuing: It should be possible to walk over your farms like in AoE II… I remember the pain I had when placing like 15 farms… Villagers always got stuck between my farms, even if I let enough space for 2 units between the farms…

thats indeed is the kind of “good” improvment.
it correct bugs. and modernize without changing the way the game is played

some should learn the spirit!!!

@DRNKNNidhoeggr said:
What is more important than queuing: It should be possible to walk over your farms like in AoE II… I remember the pain I had when placing like 15 farms… Villagers always got stuck between my farms, even if I let enough space for 2 units between the farms…

This can be corrected without making the farms walk-able. If there is your workers in the area when you create farm then you automatically create a place holder farm that forces your troops to move away from it and will transforms to the farm after the are is cleared.

Not being able to walk over enemy farms made the defending different. Not Necessary better for the game play but different, and some people want to keep it that way. Farms also requires more free space to build if you can’t walk over them.

@Tgaud said:

@RWNorthPole said:

@Tgaud said:
the problem is that i dont want the level to master AOE to be lowered and casualized because some ppl doesnt have APM.

im against farm queing. i was just trying to find a compromise.
but all the new generation of lazy casual player is trying to find a new game to destroy with casualization.

“oh no the ennemy has more APM its unfair”

well, train.

“oh no i forgot to rebuild a farm its unfair”

“oh no i have to moove my mouse its unfair”

seriously. ppl lile that should just not play aoe and go for an RTS for Dummies.
it seriously ■■■■ me off to wait for 20years the game of my life, lile many others, and see it wasted to become a clone of others modern RTS on mechanics.

so lets just stick to what AOE was and have it remastered technically with new graphics new music and some improvment like rally points that doesnt remove anything.

like someone said : someone gathering his food from the sea will have a big disadvantage against farms because he will have to move his fish boat that will cost APM while the farming guy will just have to queue.

AoE:DE is not only a remaster, but also a remake. It’s 2 games in 1. I disagree with your fervent gatekeeping here - new players should be able to pick up and enjoy the game. It’s been 20 years since AoE came out, and games have advanced a lot in that time. AoE was a blind man (Blind Lame Priest, anyone?) feeling it’s way through the darkness to light to torch for others to follow. It arguably kickstarted RTS games in the mainstream. I think it’s ridiculous for you to expect the devs to change nothing but the graphics. That simply wouldn’t sell very well nowadays, I think, nor would it attract new customers (games are a business…). AoE:DE isn’t going to be “lowered” or “casualized”. It’s like the 10th time that I tell you this, but seriously, Classic Mode is in the game because the devs are aware that their changes won’t sit well with everyone. If that isn’t indicative that there will be mechanics changes, then I don’t know what is. Too bad if you don’t like it, but there’s always Classic Mode.

too bad if you dont like it but there is always other modern new fluffy RTS.

age of empire 1 had the recipe for fun. so dont come with the “I know everything” cocky spirit to make age of empire 1 another failure like every other modern RTS that all pretend to be so good but failed.

ok for stuff lile rallypoint. but changing the game itself with stuff like queing sorry but no.
its age of empire1 remake. its not “age of empire 4 : stone age edition”

you will be free to make a fanpatch after “lazy people extension”

too bad if you dont like it but there is always other modern new fluffy RTS.

age of empire 1 had the recipe for fun. so dont come with the “I know everything” cocky spirit to make age of empire 1 another failure like every other modern RTS that all pretend to be so good but failed.

ok for stuff lile rallypoint. but changing the game itself with stuff like queing sorry but no.
its age of empire1 remake. its not “age of empire 4 : stone age edition”

you will be free to make a fanpatch after “lazy people extension”

i prefer 0 A.D have better realism. But I’m in love with this.
You play original AoE and play gold edition and queue isn’t lazy.

I don’t like the lack of historic accuracy of this game.
I will play it but I’m not waiting nothing’s special.