How many games are you dodging that your elo is that affected by it??? 
I really hope this isn’t the actual case… And that it’s actually due to the existing mix of skill levels amongst elo anyway… Otherwise you have been dodging way too many matches and wasting way too many people’s time
I was talking about the time lost by the victim of the alt+f4, not the perpetrator.
Also, you started this talk about alt+f4 during the queue (match found and 1min to wait), but the post opener was talking about the early quitting when game is already started.
Those are two different things, and they require different measures. Mixing both is kinda confusing.
Concerning early quitting a game that’s already started (example within the first minute) : I would think that ELO loss is the only way here.
As mentioned before, there are actually good reasons why someone would want to surrender a match quickly. And if he is ok with loosing ELO points because of it, that’s his choice.
For example, if he has a very bad map generation, no sheep at start, or a very bad match-up, or against a much stronger opponent. That person can decide to give up early and he has the right to do it. He should be losing the ELO points though, obviously. It’s the same as resigning a lost match, you just decide that’s it’s lost earlier than usual. Queue time penatly would never be appropriate in that scenario.
About queue time for dodging during the 1min before the game starts : I personally think it’s not that much time lost in AoE. I’ve had people alt+f4’ing me in both 1v1 and TGs queue, and I never found that I lost much time. You always end up finding a match quickly anyways.
Also, the alt+f4 dodge during queue will be very less frequent once they implement the new map features and people are able to choose their maps more precisely.
That was towards OP, I used reply on his thread 1st post.
I guess I should have used a quotation as well to make it more obvious who I was addressing.
Hmm, you migth be able to do something like that, if the game was stable.
But when every second game crashes in the first 10 minutes that would be pretty bad. So please, before something ridiculous like this comes: make the game as stable as it was in March at least!
I never said this is high prio.
More like: If the devs think it is good to change the elo penalty system, then implement such system. I fully agree the focus needs to be more on make the game stable.
I think every one has an other opinion about which patch was the most stable. When the devs fix one bug, another one arised. For me personally, the march patch introduced much lag. So i dont like that patch.
Uh, the victim has to do the same steps. I dont see how that is different for the victim and the perpetrator. The perpetrator even has to restart his game, which takes some extra seconds.
For me both are kind of the same. The game starts for me when the match is found. If it is during the 1 minute before you map is launched or when the map already is launched doesnt really matter to me. Alt+F4-ing during this period is just a very selfish attitude.
I dont really see a good reason to resign that early. Bad map generation, no sheeps at start, bad match up or stronger opponent are all invalid to me. Non of them are equal to a guaranteed loss. AoE II is a non symmetrical game. Maps are not perferctly balance. One player can have great easy to wall map, while other player has a wide open front and forward gold. Deal with your map. Either way, both can still win the game. Same is true for not founding your sheeps at the start. Deal with it. Those 10 seconds delay dont cost you the victory. That is even true at the highest level. So i can continu for your other example. Non of them are an immediately loss.
If a player Alt+F4 early, then it is about not liking the settings of the game for some reason. it is almost always his one preference that makes the player to do Alt F4. It is almost never because he already lost the game that early. It is all about being very selfish. That attitude is bad and needs to be punished. Loosing Elo is not a real punishment for being selfish. You even give him lower Elo so he can start bashing noobs if he quit frequently.
I do hope so.
You said that step 4 is to restart the game and enter queue again. The victim doesn’t have to do this step.
It’s not the same because in the first case it is only a dodge on the map. In the second one you have a lot more infos, like Civ match ups, map generation, identity of opponent.
That is only your personal opinion though. Most people don’t see it that way. We can’t implement drastic measures like queue time penalty based on one extreme view on the subject.
If someone thinks he has a bad map and a bad match-up and he’d rather resign early, it is up to him, not to anyone else. Just like some people resign early when they have a bad situation in the game, they lost some villagers or messed up their build order or something. Theorically the game isn’t lost and they can still win, but if they want to resign, that is up to them.
The only time this behavior should be punished is in team games, because you’re not the only one that will suffer the ELO penalty, and resigning early will affect the other people in your team.
That’s also the case in League of Legends, drastic measures were taken because it is a team game and someone going AFK early will penalize his whole team, which isn’t fair.
In 1v1 though, resigning early isn’t a problem and the choice should remain up to each individual and for whatever reasons they choose. As long as they lose ELO by doing so, which is fair.
Well, the fact remains that I am not going to spend 30-60 minutes playing a mirror match to be ‘unselfish’ when I hate mirror matches. Its just not going to happen. I will just quit and go back into the que or play a different game.
And, as I mentioned before, I quit, went back to the que, matched with the same person (a mirror), then quit again. It is possible to lose 100 elo points just by being matched up with the same person over and over again who keeps selecting ‘mirror’. It is wasting both people’s times. What happened was I just quit the game and played a different PC game. And I know they are selecting mirror because I always pick non-meta rarely used civilizations, again because I like the variety and differences between civilizations.
If they aren’t going to include a preference for ‘allow/disallow mirror’, maybe the devs could make it so that you don’t match up with the same person again if you go back into the que? That would solve the issue as well.
Maybe try looking at this situation from his perspective? Just imagine you keep going into the random game queue, and keep getting matched against one particular player who doesn’t like your civ pick, (Maybe he has convinced himself that Khmer are just the worst and if your opponent picks Khmer it’s totally fair to alt-F4), and this player just keeps wasting your time?
Mirror is a legitimate civ pick.
If you do this you totally deserve to get blocked from the random match pool for at least an hour. That would also solve your problem, because after an hour this opponent would probably have found a match with a guy who doesn’t keep wasting his time.
I agree that both people are getting their time wasted. Your solution is for me and others like me to stop playing the game. The devs and everyone want MORE people to play the game, not fewer. That is why not matching the same people up again would be a good solution. Mirror is a legitimate pick for sure. And so is ‘no mirror’. Both are equally legitimate, and a preference. If he has the option to pick ‘mirror’ why don’t I have the option to pick ‘no mirror’? I don’t ‘deserve’ to be forced not to play the game any more that the guy who picks ‘mirror’. No one should be forced not to play the game.
You don’t need to ban me from playing for an hour, because after it happens a few times I just quit the game and play something else because I don’t like having my time wasted and my ELO become inaccurate either.
You should maybe try playing unranked games and getting a feel for all civs this way you know their strengths and weaknesses. This way when you are faced with a civ that you don’t want to play you will know their weaknesses or if faced with a mirror match you will know how to adjust from your standard build order and adapt.
If you are just going to disconnect when you see a matchup you don’t like then don’t play ranked. All you will be doing is wasting my time and uppping my 52% win rate.
There is a slight difference between victim and perpetrator.
One needs to close the ongoing match and go back to the menu and click again on multiplayer. The other player needs to launcht the whole game again. Time wise it doesnt really matter. So the time waste by both players is likely the same.
It is still dodging and both deserve the same punishment.
Seems like i am not the only reason with this opinion. Just have a look at this thread.
Again the same notes: The numbers in my post were just examples, just to make clear the idea. It is up to the devs to change the number so they think the make sense. And i never said this change needs to be number one priority. I am not even sure the devs really need to spend time on this. Topic starter come with the suggestion to do something about the Elo lost for quitters. I just post my own opinion on that subject. I dont wanna push the devs to do this. I am not in a hurry for this. I didnt face many quitters when playing the game. Until today. 2 out of 3 games were against quitters. I can tell you: I reported both players for this bad attitude and i hope the devs will have a look at those accounts. If they just quit early in multiple times, then i hope the devs will have some punishment. Total time waste for both games was around 10-15 in total (both game together). So the +/- 5 minutes for each Alt F4 of the enemy is pretty accurate.
It is just selfish from players to waste the time of others. You know that if you join the ranked queue, you can have certain maps. The map generation can also be non favorable for you. You can have a bad match up. You can end up with mirror games. Part of the game is just deal with it. Joining the queue is equal to accept this kind of results. If you dont agree with those points, then just dont join the queue. Why would you join something in the first place if you dont like the settings?
I think there must be something wrong with your game then.
When someone alt+f4 in my queue, I do not have to go back to the menu nor click again on multiplayer. There is an error message but then the queue starts back right away. The queue even starts back from the time of the error, not from 00:00 .
Funny, but there are only a handful of people posting here. And most of them aren’t even talking of queue time penalty as you are, but just the ELO penalty.
I’m pretty sure if we do a serious poll, the request for queue time penalty for people who early quit games will be unders 10% positive. I even see some streamers doing it on stream sometimes, and nobody seems to be shocked in the chat. He resigned early, he lost ELO points, his opponent won ELO points, end of story.
As long as it’s 1v1 and you’re the only one losing the points, it is up to you and there is no need for alarm. Even the opponent might just be happy to win some free points.
As I said, your point of view that it is something dramatic, that the victim is wasting so much precious time, and that it should be answered with the drastic punitive measure of queue time penalty, is an extreme view on the subject. At least, everything I’ve read and seen up to now points to this conclusion.
What about you just deal with it?
I mean, take the free ELO points and deal with the fact that your opponent decided to resign early, for whatever reason he had. You’re not losing more than a few minutes at most, and it’s not like it happens that often. In fact, it almost never happens. Because people usually do not want to waste ELO points without trying.
So people want to be able to freely quit ranked games, which inconveniences the other person as well, and they dont think they should be penalized for it? How entitled are you?
Are there any suggestions to decrease the amount of people alt-f4ing? I think everyone wants there to be less alt-f4ing/quitting. No one actually wants to do it. I say remove ‘penalties’ (losing ELO isn’t a penalty, it is just inaccurately adjusting both players skills, including the ‘winner’, who is now also going to have less accurate skill matching, and extra que delays just makes people want to stop playing the game).
I propose
1)including a ‘no mirror allowed’ checkbox option as well as a mirror option
2)not matching up with the same person that you just played a match with again
Increase the penalties imho.
you can do this one easily, simply wait 2-3 minutes after you quit a game before queueing again. much less likely to be matched against the same person.
just because you don’t like a certain style of match up doesn’t mean you should be able to duck and dodge from it without being penalized. you complain you shouldn’t be forced to play a game you don’t want to play, but you also shouldn’t be able to take away the other persons chance to play the game.
you want out of a matchup you don’t like? fine. take the hit.
wait a few minutes. queue again.
I do actually, but what invariably ends up happening is I just do something else and dont play at all.
So by the same argument, if i’m playing Goths, and one of my opponents if japanese or aztecs, and I know I will struggle against samurai or jag warriors, then I’ll just quit because I don’t find it fun? No. I’ll play the game because I might just learn something new. Two civs can be played very differently. For example, Persians, you could go war elephants and crossbow man or camels, crossbowman and cannons? Japs could go trebs and trash, or saumrai? The same civ does not mean the same game, as every civ can be played slightly differently. If you’re mayans, facing another mayan, will they come at you with archers, or eagles? or perhaps a mix of both? Maybe then you could go onagers and champs.
You should loose ELO points for quitting early, it’s so annoying waiting in the lobby for 5 minutes, to finally get a game, then someone doesn’t like the civ, or doesn’t like the map, or perhaps just wants to go and eat a pumpkin.
It just not only about posts. For example: The most liked post in this thread is my suggestion of adding some kind of time penalty.
You still dont seem to understand that the number in my post are EXAMPLES. They are just to make sure everyone understands the idea. So i just put down some numbers. Dont take those to seriously. It was just an example. The devs change them to whatever they like.
Also: I dont wanna push any penalty. My response is for the case that IF the devs decided to change something. I am even nog sure if they really need to spend time at this point. For me it is no issue if they just dont change the current penalty at all.
I really dont care about my Elo. Free Elo does nothing to me. I really dont care if i am 21.986th or 21.987th in the world. I think this is the case for many players at the ranking. For them Elo is just a number used in MM. So only thing that really matters is that Elo is represents their true skill. And that is why free Elo breaks the system.
In the end i just think we need to agree to disagree. We will never agree to the point of view of the other and i feel like i just repeat myself ever time i react. I wont be surprised if you feel exactly the same. We posted our opinions about this subject and it is in the end up to the devs to decided what they want.
You do realise that forcing players to play maps they hate on the threat of losing ELO will make the gaming experience worse for everyone once you get into the game, both you and the person who didn’t want to lose ELO?
They will probably resign a lot earlier.