I don’t play with cumans (played like campaign and maybe 3 other games vs AI), but I wanna address the way the balance is being thrown around here.
When balancing something, always go for small steps, like increase gold cost and double collision box thing and see if it was nerfed enough. Stats were fine in theory, so there was no reason to nerf it while also increasing the gold cost of the unit.
Before patch, steppe lancers had no counters (at least no cost effective) being a solid option against anything.
After patch there’s absolutely no reason to even make them anymore. Unless they’re given a bonus against something
3 Likes
Absolutely disagree here.
Steppe Lancers were overpowered in such a terrible way that it was by far the best decision to go really hard on them and then maybe buff them a bit later. Their state before the patch was so bad that removing them from the game would have made the game a lot better.
Normally I agree with you on balancing, but in such a case I think careful balancing is for sure the wrong way. Rather make it useless than risk that it ruins the game for another patch cycle. The devs did a very good job there (I’m also not yet convinced that they’re really that useless)
2 Likes
That’s lazy balancing. In fact it’s not even balancing at that point. Removing or destroying a unit because it was overpowered instead of balancing it and still making it playable is the wrong way. That’s desperation, but I guess they did it that way to calm everyone.
Let me give you an example:
“Franks have the highest winrate in the game!”
patch notes: castles costs normalized, removed husbandry, chivalry now costs 800g, removed plate barding armor.
See how bad a radical “balance” can be?
Check how karambit warrior was balanced across 3 or 4 patches and it’s still useful
The way they buffed koreans and balanced other civs was really good, taking small steps and giving a small buff or a small nerf, but steppe lancers balance went from 180º to 0º.
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You are not adressing what I said though.
As a temporal solution overnerfing them (or even removing them) is better than them being too strong in an oppressive way.
Of course it would be better to do a patch and have them perfectly balanced, but that most likely won’t work in reality. And that’s why I said - rather have them weak now and buff them later than just doing a small adjustment and having them still dominating every game.
I am saying in this specific situation a radical change is the best short term solution.
Of course radical balancing is bad in most cases (I also agree with your example) - but not here.
EDIT: And I dont think Lancers are as bad as you claim right now - but that’s another discussion.
Yeah, let’s hope it’s a temporal solution and not something they’ll forget for years because no one is complaining anymore (except me, but not the wrong balance thing, but how they did it, changing it too much).
Right now they’re acting weird. I’ve tested 30 steppe lancers vs 30 hussars a few times and hussars always win, but the margin keeps bouncing from 5 to 15 hussars left after the battle. Not microing or anything. They just meet up and fight
We’ll have to see how well they still perform in the Imperial Age. Normal Steppe Lancers still create in 24 seconds, and Elite Steppe Lancers still create in 20 seconds, you know, while Cavalier/Paladin creates in 30 seconds. IIRC Elite Steppe Lancers have the fastest base creation speed out of every non-unique gold unit, which in combination with their cheaper cost is why they’re super-easy to mass in overwhelming numbers. Elite Steppe Lancer upgrade is also a looot cheaper than Cavalier + Paladin upgrade.
I feel like these nerfs put the Steppe Lancer closer to the developer’s vision for the unit. Meaning, it’s supposed to be a weak unit in Castle Age, but then explodes in the Imperial Age because of the Elite version’s cheap upgrade cost + fast creation speed + cheap creation cost. Imagine it like the Goths, but for a cavalry unit.
So, we’ll have to see how well they still perform in the Imperial Age in the hands of players who see the biggest strength of the Steppe Lancer as an easily spammable gold cavalry unit.