Fire Lancer Improvement Suggestions

@joanka93val Copy the pros; pros use fire lancers, the end gg! mirror what they do. Esp in tournaments the games that matters the mosttt???

In my opinon, fire lancers are cheesy. Once someone has a mass of 50, they can’t really be stopped. They will ride into your base, they will start destroying your landmarks. If you see it coming, 90 seconds is not enough to pull back your army or train a counter. Cavalry seem to path better in cities than infantry do. They can surround a landmark instantly while any spearmen, besides walking slowly, get caught up on all sorts of pathing issues that limit them to only reaching parts of the fire lancers. Then it’s all over in literally 4 seconds, so even if you did kill some of their fire lancers, your base is still getting destroyed. And they can do it quicker than any other combination of units, even cannons, so you can’t race them in an all-in.

They should put more emphasis on the lance, making them strong vs infantry or other cavalry, and remove any incentive that makes them feel like demolitionists. They didn’t attack buildings with their lance… they had one charge on the end and it was used once in battle to surprise/stun a person so they could punish them for flinching. At the moment they feel like battering rams with 5x move and attack speed.

So do you really think that because 100 FL costs 16K + 1.8k to unlock, burn the whole base is not worth, because “your base doesn’t cost as much”.

Ok, so I can extrapolate this to every other unit. How much does it cost to mass 100 knights? Much more than 100 FL + unlock, does it means they have to be able to burn like 2 bases?

If they increse ranged unit and decrease effectivity versus building for me is ok. They will be anti siege, anti light infantry, and better and raiding. Again you keep lying saying “they need armor so they can be more effective anti siege and raiding”.

They are enough effective doing so right now, with the change they will be even better getting over castles and defensive buildings and burning everything.

But hey, people that only knows how to win using 100 FL will complain that they are weak of course.

4-5TC to see advantage with Song dinasty? Dude, china players are sooooo cryiers. Most of you simply doesn’t know how to play the civ properly and come here to say that everything about china is trash.

Maybe the civ need some buffs in some aspects, but it’s not as bad as you and other users say.

Doesn’t help that is one of the more complex civs (for not say the most complex), and bronce guys come here saying that everything is a trash and they need massing granadiers and tankier FL to be able to win :joy:.

There is a key point: if a large number of cavalry units, such as knights, rush into the city, it will also cause FL problems, and even more difficult to counter.

IMO units should not be able to burn military buildings such as castles, barracks, etc… As easy.

I would understand that farms, mining camps, TC’s, etc… Can be burned by units (even FL) easily, but I can’t understand that a certain number of units, say FL, say knights, say whatever you want, can burn a castle in literally 4 seconds.

Is not fun to wall up the whole map with stone to avoid these kind of things, mostly because once in imperial massing FL is not a big issue since they are cheap, fast, raid well, and can kill ranged units or siege very well.

I just tested yesterday to mass 30 FL in a 1v1 in imperial while defending and the result was pretty okay, I could get into enemy lines, killed a lot of villagers with charge, burned military building, etc… And all this while my other army was attacking from front and obviously the other dude killed my FL, but the damage was done.

I just love how much none sense you can spout.

Alright lets talk this then.

In other hand we have heavy knights with way higher stats than FL in terms of HP, melee armor, ranged armor and similar charge single target charge dmg while being same speed as FL. The capabilities all around are far superior to FL even when trying to justify the making FL vs Knights for raiding purposes because Knights can raid longer and kill spread villagers much more efficiently, plus knights can be massed at castle age without additional unlocking cost.

So what you’re now saying because knights are suited for every role in game not necessary best but suited anyway they should be better burning down buildings than unit that has very niche role? Do you even understand how much nonesense you spout.

Yes FL has higher torch dmg than Knights, but knights got every other stat way higher. Also Knights are better sniping siege not in actual dmg dealing numbers but because they’re WAY tankier than FL. Literally double the HP and vastly more armor and they do VERY similar charge dmg even tho FL has advantage against stacked targets like villagers or siege they lose that moment units are more spread and cannot utilize the splash.

Then the fact, because FL is so squishy and low hp / armor and high cost they’re not efficient at all when it comes to sniping siege if siege is protected. If you send 6 FL to kill 1 bombard that has 10 spears protecting them those FL do not do anything unless spears are AFK and those 6 FL are more expensive than the bombard so to kill the 1 Bombard China has to sent large amount of FL for suicide mission those making them extremely costly as siege sniping. Story is different when playing at lower elo leagues where players do not control their units other than A move and its players own fault if they get all their siege blown apart by couple of FL.

FL are not anti light infantry units. They have no bonuses against them anymore and giving them 2 ranged armor will not change this. Impact in actual fighting capabilities are very minimal to none existing. Especially in imperial where HC are just main goal for ranged units. Top of that Siege sniping capabilities are very niche and very situational

They need armor. They need more HP and Armor to be effective in the role that they’re meant or they need to be cheaper. Raiding unit cannot be expensive, slow or squishy and currently FL is expensive and squishy for the role they need to fill.

I don’t care if they remove torch dmg from FL and buff them otherway, but as of rn they’re nothing but expensive buff button to used with melee and extremely niche purpose which is either hit and miss.

Don’t blame unit when players make the mistake and lose because of it. Sure it might not be fun to play against but thats not related to balance in anyway or form

Lying? Its funny how everyone always “YOU LIE YOU LIE YOU LIE”. Having different opinion is not lying. Do you even understand what lying means? If I tell you that my eyes are red, but are actually blue that would be a lie. Me saying different opinion from yours is not lying. Literally you go from nonesense to extreme nonesenese in 2 posts.

You do understand how fast FL die? They die to any unit. You don’t just have to try using cavalry or equal numbers of spears. They die to everything because their stats are low in every regard yet they cost 160 resources which is way too high for unit that cannot fight, cannot survive.

If unit is meant for raiding and running through base then they need to be able to take some fire to make it cost efficient trade for user and I have already said so many times that FL are way too expensive to make and way too expensive to unlock for the effectiveness that they offer.

Fully upgraded FL has 216 HP has no armor to speak of because BS upgrades are not base line armor and is reduced to 0 if opponent has +3 too. 20 more torch dmg

Fully upgraded horsemen has 216 HP base 2 ranged armor and better melee dmg and bonus dmg against ranged and is 40 resources cheaper. Plus faster

Here maybe you should spent some time checking the stats and considering the price. Could help you.

Also please do not respond anymore unless you’re willing to share IGN and gameplay of you losing the FL. Im not interested of continuing this discussion with someone who is afraid of showing own gameplay where they react properly to FL. I will never get it because its trend of ppl to be afraid giving their replays to watch because deep down they know that they screwed up so show me you’re different

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You just said what I am saying the whole conversation, so this is over.

Also, I am not spending my time anymore with a guy who goes from “I will nicely have a look at your replay” to “DO YOU FREAKING UNDERSTAND…???” in one post.

I hope you can find calm and learn how to use FL properly, so you don’t need them to be what they are not supposed to be anymore.

And of course, I am not gonna share any replay and my steam ID/name with you.