Fix Chinese Barbican of the Sun exploit

Some Chinese players rush to build this landmark right next to my base and end up killing all of my villagers once its completed, its a stage in the game where you still havent been able to make an army because its only been less than 5 minutes of the game.

Just like how the mongols were corrected, players shouldnt be able to build defensive landmarks so close to opponents Town Center.

You can pull more villagers than your opponent sent, and fight them. This should force your opponent to retreat or build Barbican further back. If they retreat, you have the advantage because he lost more work time than you.

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w8?! another exploit/game breaking bug?!

You can put cheap unfinished walls/buildings on locations where you can expect them to build barbican forcing the delay. Ideal is to always have one scout watching chinese player and wall crossing if there is any.

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Oh come on. The chinese player is taking lots of risk building the barbican in your base. The idle time on his villagers (he needs plenty of villagers to make that tower rush a force), expensive towers (unlike mongols tower pre patch). Switch to other ressource spots build towers or even rams, try to stop him from building more towers and attack his main base which should be unprotected.

There’s just too many players right now complaining about legit strategies. People lose to tower rushes? Can’t be because i just didn’t have the answer, must be the game since lots of people are complaining → go to the forums and open a thread.
People lose to early harassment or english longbow and ram push? Must be the game imbalance or cheese strats. → go to the forums and complain about the state of the game.

Seriously, get a grip. Stick to the game, get better at it and stop crying. Right now there’s most likely only one civ that outshines all other civs. And that’s delhi. And if you lost, you most likely did so because you had a match up against a better player.

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There already nerfed to the ground in the coming PUP patch. Not many will be playing them.
Soon no 1 will play China so you wont have to worry about an easy to stop landmark rush.

Its a legit strat just like tower rush and others. Pull all your villager and attack them with whatever army you got. Fast build towers also if you spot them coming

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That’s why rise of nations has borders…

OP is expressing a mood that I share with him. If you chase away all casual players (noobs) by telling them to git gud, then who will be left for you to noob bash?

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Other 1200-2100 players, of course.

Anyway, OP just has to scout better, same as the average player. Most don’t scout proficiently in most games and get trumped by all sorts of risky stuff on part of their opponent.

I don’t believe asking somebody to scout better is the equivalent of git gud.

no , its not , its just another cheesy strategy.

Maybe once they fix the Rus Kremlin exploit. Tired of Rus players rushing to build this landmark right next to my base and end up killing all my villagers once its completed.

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still open up to if is caused by a flawed design or poor balance.

Yeah, they just need a fix for all early landmark rushes.

I agree, it should be fixed as it was done with the Mongols, I did not take this issue because at the moment many feel the Chinese are weak

Mongols were fixed because their tower rush was obviously overpowered. China and rus landmark rush is not overpowered so it will not be fixed and that’s just fine since it is a valid strategy. Both civs do have average or even below average win rates depending on elo range so ppl really should stop complaining and learn how to deal with being attacked. If you entirely banned offensive buildings or rush in the early game you would struggle calling Aoe4 a strategic game any longer. Simply play simulation games if you can’t deal with having to make strategic decisions under pressure.

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At most they would fix it like the mongol tc drop…but honestly if you let someone build a landmark that close… you get what you get…

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Why do you not pick Chinese and build a Sun close to him with more vils? They will gg at that moment easy …

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Relic needs to scale certain building build times from distance from the starting TCs.

This would appropriately punish aggressive tower/barbican/Kremlin/stone wall tower rushes without making these rushes completely unviable as a strategy.

My opinion is that rushes should be viable strategies, but if your opponent can counter them, then you should be easily punished for overplaying your hand. Right now, there’s little to no downside to rushing. As mongols, you can tower rush, fail, and still come out ahead with the steppe redoubt/tech switch to lancers/MAA.

Every rush strategy is already highly punished in Aoe4 as it has lots of defensive buildings that do shoot arrows with a hit rate of 100 %. Also, villagers can be garrisoned in lots of buildings. So this game is very supportive to a defensive beginner playstyle already. Punishing rush strategies even more will make this game a total turtle and boom fest with no interactions until castle age. That’s not a RTS anymore, that’s a citybuilder or city simulation with a big blob in the end or whatever.

I mean did you ever rush other players? There’s a huge downside to it in this game. Your army is not in your base so it is unprotected. You don’t only need to watch your base but take a look at the other end of the map too where the rush is about to take place at the same time. That forces you to have a way higher APM and doing a mistake will hurt you very badly. What happens if the rushing player loses 5 longbows to the tc because he was busy building his macro at home? Right, he loses 5 longbows and the defensive player doesnt lose anything because his tc did the job which he didn’t even need to control it. It automatically fired arrows with a 100 % hitrate. No clicks needed from the defending player. And he didn’t even need to build or upgrade it. He just has that defensive structure from the very beginning on. So zero skill involved. Is that fair to you?

I will tell you something: If you lose against a rush in the early game in this game with that heavy defensive orientation, you lost because you met a player that is better than you by a big distance. If he had not rushed you would have most likely lost the game in the late game as well as he might just have a way better understanding of the game and army control than you.

I obviously share a different opinion, but you may be right - the opposing player may simply be better. I myself prefer early aggression, especially with civs geared towards feudal aggression such as the French. However, if I find a boom/turtling opponent has sufficiently defended themselves, I can decommit from a more aggressive stance and head to castle myself behind early harassment.

My idea to scale build times for certain buildings such as stone walls and stone towers is because they’re being used as cheesy offensive strategies that I do not believe are in the spirit of the game. In the N4C tournament, stone walls were banned in feudal and stone towers were completely banned for this reason. For newer, incoming players, getting building-rushed (stone tower, tower, Barbican, Kremlin) is not fun and frustrating. Scaling building times away from areas-of-influence (i.e. connected to your TC or main base) would make stone walls and stone wall towers still useful defensively while limiting their use as cheesy offensive tools.