100 stone for getting 1000 hp and 5 more additional fire damage resistance is very expensive. As well as emplacements are very costly compared to the keep which is 5000 hp. For example, cannon emplacement for outpost needs 300 stone 75 gold. In order to get one cannon on a weak tower which costs 100 wood initially then fortify it and pay 100 stone more to sum up you pay 400 stone 100 wood 75 gold is almost a price of a keep and what you get 5 unit garrisonable 2000 hp only shoots cannon while its empty. Upgrading outposts makes no sense with that costs. I have never seen a pro gameplay that upgrades any outpost to max level. To solve this either reducing price of upgrading outpost or when you fortify outpost increase the size of garrisonable units in outpost. This should be changed as soon as possible to not waste any working resource on those mechanics.
Fortify outpost and emplacements needs buff immediately before release
Totally not worth it. I think it needs to be changed.
Please devs reduce fortify outpost cost.
A other thing to hadd to the list to do.
- Ajust tower.
I swear, wy do players not had those details in the beta test review, insted of saying that “Game is perfect has it is”.
It is true that tower upgrade cost like a castle., but is 5 time weaker.
I have read a lot of people who likes the game and somewhat confront all the complainers out there.
But I have read no one saying that the game is perfect as is.
It is just wrong. Just as any other games before, the launched game will be far from perfect. Patches and other modifications will come in time. It is silly now to expect any changes, the game launch in four days. Let’s wait to see what exactly is launched and then we’ll comment on bugs and other problems. Patches will follow.
I have read many of these threads and I do not think I have once seen anyone say the game is perfect as it is (literally wrote this at the same time as above, great minds think alike). The problem seems to be those overwhelmed with disappointment.
Static defenses are not flexible. At higher levels they are usually never built because the players are investing in mobile armies for defense and offense but at the same time stone is better invested into town centers or fortresses.
Towers can be good to tower rush (in aoe2) and to defend certain areas but mostly they are inefficient. If you make towers and you gain no advantage, the opponent has then invested the same resources into something more useful.
Till this point they can be helpful to save villagers in raids and no doubt the developers will be keeping an eye on how they perform. I personally would like to see more and play more games before finalising my own view on their balance.
So what is the point of upgrading tower then? They should remove that feature if that nothing designed to be used. I expect no unbalanced stuff should be in game since many of us paid the game or will pay and wanting good product to get so we are trying to give developers feedback what we have seen in stress test.
For example, in aoe3 towers could be a cheaper way to garrison units in raids to cover more of your static economy (farms and plantations), given that you could only have so many forts. You could not always be walled in and have your army in the right place at all times.
I do not disagree that they should have a purpose and upgrades should be viable.
If the thought process is that towers should be useful if needed in the early game and more viable later on in the game, I could understand that to avoid towers being too powerful. So armies are not just stopped in their tracks immediately by a few towers and the game focuses more on booming.
The key is tension between all these decisions, whether to build army or boom, defend or attack. Towers are at a natural disadvantage as they are static. But you also can’t make them too strong. I’m not sure we know where these tension points are yet based on the costs of the tower.
Tower costs are okay but the problem is upgrading cost is alot. Who else spend 100 stone to give one tower 1k more hp rather than build second town center by giving double the stone price. Don’t forget you initially paid 100 wood for the tower itself which is okay.
Well, for some reason they tought that the price was right. Hum!
Instead of removing that, knowing that a lot of players (not the pros, but the ordinary players) use these towers a lot, we should just expect a modification of the price in a future patch.
Currently, those towers are probably useful in age 2 and in the beginning of age 3. After that they would still have some use with their upgrades but as the upgrades are way too expensive, these towers will temporarly (I hope) be known as “early defensive measures”. Or sometimes “offensive early assets” if you plan to build them around ennemy gold mines or forests. But they will be useless after that. Their base price being low, this is OK.
Same here. I’d wait til their use is explored more. On paper the upgrades seem too expensive (compared to a castle or even wall as an alternative stone investment, or all the research the mongols can use it for).
Not forgetting that one of the strongest elements of towers is that they do not take up population space. I also think they the number you can build is not limited unlike in aoe3.
There is one thing you forget.
There are civs that can go fast for the 2 or 3 landmarks.
If they make the towers to cheap and strong the games becomes too much like age of mythology in the deathmatch version.
People made 5 towers on the settlement that gave 20 extra population space.
You can make the tower in age 2 and it also takes less space than a keep.
If you give towers half of the firepower of a keep people will spam 20 towers (don’t think it has a limit like in aoe3, same for keeps) and keep pushing forward.
My suggestion is that for those towers we first have to see their use. 5 vills in a tower is quite strong. If you make it too strong then armies will get shred by 4 towers in the middle of the battlefield.
I agree that towers are not upgraded fully quickly. But I think in age 4 they will be when someone has extra resources.
Making towers strong in age 2 or in castle age gives too much emphasize on keeps and towers.
Tower wars are not cool.
Also: When you try to break a strong wall with towers behind it and his siege behind it it will get very very difficult.
I am not saying towers are useless here. The problem is “UPGRADE - FORTIFY” elements need buff like reducing its cost.
You should check the last devs game when he upgraded the keep with the hot oil.
How this shred the horses of the opponent. Those upgrades are really strong but come with a price.
They are certainly not weak. You can lose 35 units with that oil before you take out that keep.
There were no boiling oil for outposts during stress test. You might mean keep?
Yes, here I mean the keep. But I am quite sure that boiling oil on those outposts and the springald upgrade etc are devastating.
Imaging a tower where a springals fires in your face as infantry or siege. That is painful. I think they have 2000 hp with upgrades. It will take some time and shots of those springald and hot oil to take that down.
Normally opponent will also defend that outpost and you will lose even more units
Upon release let’s see whether the upgrades are viable. If people do not use them at all, the developers will probably have access to that data and changes can be made.
More evidence is needed and the game is not even released yet.
If it never gets used and isn’t discovered to be strong in anyway, I’m sure more people can get onboard with a change and your inclination might be right.
As I said there is no boiling oil upgrade for outposts…
If your main discussion point is the cost of stone, at least look up the cost. Town Centers cost 300 stone.
how many towers you see in aoe2 getting upgraded ? like 1 or 2% out of all pro games. it dont need to be a main meta… im not saying its balanced or worth it. but for now lets focus on bigger balances like keeps being to weak in term of dmg output vs armored unit which defeat the goal of getting one for 850 stone or such just for a knight to sit under it and kill vills easily.