That’s the question. I think Castles 25% cheaper is too much. Maybe 10-15%.
What are your thougts?
Considering they lack Bracer, and need TAs because their HCs are the worst in the game, it is justified taht they should cost even less.
They just nerfed the berry bonus to 15% from 25% which is pretty big.
I don’t see why we need to worry about additional nerfs when the last one hasn’t had time to settle in the meta yet.
Also the castle bonus would really suck if it was worse than the Incan bonus AND only affected castles.
Well there are times where balance complaints are legitimate, but there are others where it sounds misguided at best.
Ok, this is not the thread for complaint about community, is for Franks’ cheaper Castles my friends. Please, refer to it. Thank you
In a time where everyone complains about the Burgundians, this man goes against the mainstream, he is not afraid to be a free-thinker, and standing up for what he believes, he decides to complain about the Franks castle discount bonus. This guy is a visionary.
Not actually… Frank play rate actually increased with the patch.
I might not necessarily agree that the castle is the issue but the weakened dark age walls and the more open maps even further assists Franks scrush into knights.
Are we talking about the same franks here??. The Franks with a bucket load of eco bonuses on top of the meta unit.
You’re comparing to a civ that almost literally relies on the trush to a civ with some of the best bonuses for the most meta unit in the game.
On a similar note, you do realise magyar bonus only applies to scouts and is worse than the berber one? So that precedent is already set.
Its very useful for castle dropping and massing axe throwers or trebuchets if needed.
But franks usually win by massing knights. So the bonus is not as useful for them as it seems. In usual cases, it is handy for 3 TC booming because of the stone saved, and that’s all.
If Frank’s remain op even post nerf then nerfing to 20% from 25% could be a easy next step to get the civ in line with others.
Directly to 15% or less feels eccesive and like others said feels off with the general Incan bonus.
Where do you see this? Aoestats is still on pre-DLC patch so it doesn’t make much sense anyway.
Aoestats says “Over 360,846 DE matches on patch 43210 analyzed!”
and the most recent patch was 44725 and hotfix 44834.
so since that information is based on 43210, which is when several non Franks top contenders were nerfed, and Franks were left alone, it absolutely makes sense their playrate went up.
You need to pay more attention to the sources you cite. The aoestats website hasn’t been updated for over 2 months now.
Franks just got a big nerf from the berry bush change. It’s only been a week or two. I’d say we should gives the nerfs at least a month to settle and then re-evaluate after that point if Franks are still overbearing. Or wait for a tournament to see how the pro meta is affected.
Also you are correct about the Magyar Scout vs. Berber thing. However I believe that example is okay because Magyars also have the compounding bonus of free attack upgrades for scouts which could make 20% or 25% cheaper scouts problematic for balance. Frank Castles aren’t quite the same situation.
The site does claim to have been updated more regularly
but there are no new civs and it still shows Tatars and Bulgarian with a huge playrate increase so I suppose it is indeed still working off the anniversary patch and it still compares to the patch before that.
And when is the new update? I want to check koreans winrate. And italians.
I have no idea when it will be updated. I assume the person(s) who run the site would have to do something to start tracking data from the new patches. If you read the FAQ or w/e it says the last patch update was in November. And if you look at the graphs the last patch is 43210. So we cannot use this source for balance judgements for civs that were just buffed or nerfed.
noooooooo koreans will remain bottom tier foreeeveeeeeer
I wouldn’t nerf the discount on castles, since franks really depends on them.
If anything is needed, maybe just remove architecture or hoardings from the tech tree, making them less resilient.
Or, a even better nerf would be to switch the 2 UT, since having chivalry in castle age is strong.