French Knights vs Mongol Horseman comparison in harassment, rebalance suggestion

Of course you don’t understand what anyone is arguing about here: you’re clearly always right, and others are wrong. Frankly, people won’t be interested in discussing your ideas when you take such an aggressive and pedantic tone.

Lore, in the context of video games (which, surprise, AoE4 is) is not “a body of traditions and knowledge on a subject or held by a particular group, typically passed from person to person by word of mouth.” It’s fictional storytelling.

Second, I’m not sure how I would rebalance Chivalry as an ability. I agree, it seems a little OP at the moment, and doesn’t really fit the historical context as well as it could. I mean, chivalrous knights shouldn’t be slaughtering peasants.

Maybe Chivalry could give a bonus to armour in mixed groups (like Camels, but inverted sorta), that way you’d have to mix in spears or archers to get the benefit of it. Would also be a good nerf to French raiding, which I think Mongols should AT LEAST be on par with.

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No, yet you argued giving this magical healing outside of combat to the Mongols.

History isn’t lore. Lore isn’t history. But why are you arguing what history is or isn’t in your own balance thread?

Perhaps you shouldn’t fault others for something, then turn around and do the same thing you criticized them for doing?

They’re not really countered by early spearmen though - at a 3:1 ratio if the knights for some reason decided to take that fight and die, then yes. But instead they will simply avoid the spearmen and look for villagers to pick off, tank any damage, then run away and heal, rinse and repeat. The issue is the Chivalry upgrade that lets them quickly heal up in age 2.

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The problem is chivalry is really hard to answer in early feudal. Spears are an ok matchup vs knights but you will be forever defensive and with some micro the french player will never lose a knight. Mangudai is really the only true annoyance to feudal knights. Chivalry could be balanced by being more expensive or time consuming, pushed to castle and/or be required to come from another building. Alternatively they could just nerf the school of cavalry production bonus.

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Yes, because I’m not the one arguing lore, you are.

Yes, lore by definition IS history… lmao I can’t even believe I’m having this argument, it’s actually absurd you are still bringing this up.

This. Is. A. Balance. Post.

History. Does. Not. Matter. Here.

French. Knights. Didn’t. Automatically. Heal. In. Real. Life.

No. One. Cares. About. The. Wording. Of. A. Made. Up. Upgrade. That. Isn’t. In. Real. Life. And. That. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. The. Word. Chivalry.

Call. It. ANYTHING ELSE. Do you think knights healing 1 hp outside of combat is part of French History…?? lol this is easily the worst off topic argument I’ve heard in a balance post.

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Just move that upgrade to Castle age. Easy.

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History is factual. Lore may include some history as part of its knowledge, but its stories, legends, and myths, aren’t necessarily factual.

To put it another way: Age of Empires is about history. Age of Mythology is about lore. Two very different things.

I think what you mean is “history doesn’t matter in my balance thread.”

But history does matter in this game, and the strengths, weaknesses, and balancing of AoE units should have some historical basis (unlike StarCraft which is completely fictional).

Hahaha! So if they remove the upgrade they are removing history? lol
The upgrade just need be reworked, like just on Castle, or more expensive, more time to upgrade, more time to heal, or just heal after x time of no combat… The fact its they need some nerf for sure.

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Glad you’re arguing semantics of definitions just to try and win an argument! :slight_smile: And none of it matters to the point I’m making :slight_smile:

Glad you came to a balance thread to talk history! :slight_smile: Do you have any history posts I can go to, to talk balance? :slight_smile:

I hadn’t expressed an opinion about whether or not Knights should heal, or whether or not changing Chivalry is a good balance change, merely that chivalry is associated with Knights.

I think people should be able to respond in a manner they choose, instead of deciding that people should only talk about balance in your balance thread.

In regard to your rebalance suggestion of removing Chivalry from French Knights, and giving healing to Mongols, I don’t agree in general. Some members want to nerf Mongol cheesing, yet you want to make Mongols stronger.

Balancing is too complex and has too many ramifications and hidden consequences that take time and expertise to identify. So, no, I don’t like to jump in and push for some change, while not understanding what problems a change may create for other civilizations.

Personally, I think that no matter what balancing gets done in general, people will always find a new way to cheese, leading to yet another complaint about how X is (now) overpowered against Y.

Not yet, but I’ll be sure to send you a link if I ever make a topic about history! :slightly_smiling_face:

So you’re acknowledging you weren’t talking about balance? Good, we agree that your point is irrelevant to the conversation. So I’ll respond for the 1000th time with: I. Don’t. Care. Go talk about casual ■■■■ in a casual thread, and let the adults talk about balance here.

so NOW you want to talk balance where below you say you dont?? LMAO. Bro no one is saying the Dark Age stable is too strong, the TC rush is OP, we all know it’s getting nerfed and that’s fine because it’s a stupid build. If you think mongol dark age cavs are as strong as french knights, you are truly showing how little you know about the meta.

Then don’t comment on a balance thread… lmao

You clearly don’t understand how balance works… There is no true “perfect balance” and the best answer will only ever be “good enough”. With so many options, it’s impossible to not have one be “the best” option, and then you nerf that option, or buff the weakest and people re-calculate the equation and the cycle continues. You C L E A R L Y know so little about balance it’s sickening you’re still going here.

If you think my comments are childish or ignorant, why are you still replying to me?

Perhaps you could be a bit more respectful, instead of resorting to insults and personal attacks when someone does bring up balance?

When did I say they were? I simply don’t think Mongols deserve healing, merely because they’re “fragile” or “weak.”

When did I say there was? I agree that there is no true perfect balance.

But I suspect you don’t care to hear my opinion, even if I happen to agree with you.

I think the French just need a nerf and then we can look on. Knights just don’t have a counter in the feudal age atm - if you play Mangundai you can tickle them to death if you always babysit your magundai, but if you trade they can just trade very effective vs your traders while you shoot them - I think they just need less pierce armor, less overall hp.

On top of that french only has passive bonuses and like 0 mechanics you need to look out for making them as popular as they are atm. And ofc they autowin water in Feudal Age on water maps.

Welp this post aged poorly. Mongols settled in as the clear best civ in the game right now. That said french is still really strong and early chivalry is hard to deal with.