I am a regular when reading (or posting) the 2 sections of the forum (since I like both games) and yes it may sound a bit aggressive (but understandable for the situation) how certain opinions are expressed about one of the games you like, but you also have to understand the situation of the game and the frustration of its community.
Some users say that the AoE4 community is very toxic for the most part. It is so toxic that 2 of its biggest content creators made a video to show solidarity with AoE3, unlike the communities of other games. AoE4 is finding its niche and looking to improve and empower itself.
I think the best thing to do is to try to get along, just like with AoM too (even though you may like the game more or less).
Tbh these improvements could be suggested by any aoe/aom player.
To add to the AoE4 graphics complaints, many of the visuals at launch were inferior while also running worst to AoE3. Terrain caused frame-drops when moving the camera and was rendered like Google Maps, causing it to appear low resolution due to the limited aerial texture resolution. It was especially noticeable on cliffs. Trees lacked ambient occlusion and looked flat compared to the rest of the game (the whole ao implementation wasnāt great overall). Water transparency was rendered using the same technique as AoM original and looked weird especially in deep water (which was completely opaque). To the devs credit they have fixed these graphical issues and the game looks a lot better. More unique looking biomes have also been added too. Expanding flora / animal variety in biomes would be a nice addition, as would adding a Time of Day option to really show off the engineās lighting.
Many of the complaints Iāve seen for aoe4 are less of wanting the game to fail but rather wanting to add features people enjoy from other games. Using siege as an example, people might enjoy the onager shots of AoE2 or the rag-doll physics of AoE3 and suggest those get added.
And the anger is that they never did it, and they never will. However, you can see people who donāt understand the point of criticism.
Itās not the same to say āYour game is bad because it doesnāt look like mineā than to say āThis game could be better if you implemented this from this other game.ā
I am specifically addressing the amount of activity AoE3 players had in the AoEIV forum at one point. Itās in those 3 areas where AoE3 players felt AoEIV take a step back and thus, offered examples to improve the game.
The only advocates for AoE3 are the players themselves. Iām always amazed how little players from other Age games know about AoE3.
One thing from AoE2 that would greatly help immersion and identifying who is who are leader names for the AI instead of -insert difficult AI name here- This is something Iāve suggested for the game as well.
Someone: AOE4 could make the horses in stable move or have greater biodiversity and more impactful killing animations for siege
AOE4 fanboys: No. This is technically very difficult. This will impact gameplay and performance. This is very expensive. I donāt need these and I know you donāt either. The devs are doing a great job.
Someone: But AOE2 from two decades ago can do it.
AOE4 fanboys: But AOE2 is a sprite-based 2D game. Itās easier to make these things.
Someone: But look AOE3 from a decade ago can also do it and it is a 3D game.
AOE4 fanboys: OH MAMA LOOK THEY HATE OUR GAME THEY ARE EVIL THEY WANT TO OPPRESS US CANCEL THEM CANCEL THEM ALL
Meanwhile Someone: AOE4 is inferior to AOE2
AOE4 fanboys: But I see AOE3 players hate us more
As an AoE IV āfanboyā, probably one of the better-known ones, I say animated animals in buildings, more Gaia and better siege animations are all fantastic things the game would definitely benefit from.
I appreciate this doesnāt line up with whatever wedge youāre trying to drive between players across the respective Age communities, but I figured Iād pipe up in agreement and see if it makes a difference.
Side-note: these things would, factually, impact performance. Regardless, itās up to the devs to weigh up the performance margins and see what is possible. Theyāre good suggestions and I support them.
AoE III: DE is also not a decade old, and base AoE III (being 20 years old) is in no way remotely as demanding as AoE IV is, graphically. But I get it: haha, fanboys
I was not talking about you nor referring to you as a āfanboyā specifically. You were not even in this thread. Did you create yourself the title of the ābetter-known oneā and then voluntarily came here as their spokesperson?
But AoE III (being 20 years old) also had horses in stable move, greater biodiversity and more impactful killing animations for siege. And I guess hardware had not evolved in 20 years.
OMG thatās something I never heard of and definitely need someone to tell me.
Admitting something is ālackingā or āneededā (as a neutral statement) and denying it are different stories.
Iād say AOE3 lacks campaigns and some QOL features from AOE2 or 4 or AOM. No one here would consider that an insult. But if I say AOE4 lacks some graphical details, and use AOE3 as a demonstration of feasibility of graphic details etc when you guys were (pretending to be) unaware of how the series and games in general had developed in the past decade, someone would erupt.
Ask your beloved company (or, employer, maybe?) who openly spearheaded the hate towards this game. Then ask your comrades (or, colleagues, maybe?) who created this thread and replied here.
Then see what they are saying in your subforum. You spend more time there than coming here and pretending to be fair. You know what Iām talking about.
If you are still (playing) blind, let me give you a hint:
Your game gets more frequent and harshes bashes from AOE2 players. But if one or two AOE3 player says āAOE3 is better than AOE4 (in some way)ā, some of you would immediately scream āHELP HELP IāM BEING OPPRESSED!ā
Because you guys are very wise at picking who to resist
If youāre going to talk about fanboys, itās reasonable for one or two to notice, no?
Yes, and? This doesnāt change what I said.
Apparently so, given your made-up interaction where AoE IV fans cry foul over such suggestions
Itās the Internet. People āeruptā over a bunch of things. Does that make them statistically-relevant? Is the AoE III community defined by the actions of a minority? Is any community?
And speaking of erupting:
Suggesting people are employed by Microsoft just because they turned up to politely agree with your suggestions for a different AoE game is . . . quite the take.
Nor are they ābelovedā to me, either. But I understand the need to create drama, to make it āus vs. themā. I wish you wouldnāt, but thatās irrelevant really. I doubt youāre going to listen to me - youāve made this much fuss over me saying āyep, AoE IV fan, these are good suggestionsā
Iāve seen AoE IV criticised by all sorts of folks. Including fans of AoE II and AoE III. Iāve been on this forum a good long while now.
So what if more AoE II fans criticise AoE IV? There are more AoE II fans, period. AoE III is a much more niche game with significantly lower active players. This translates (roughly) into forum activity as well.
Do people always respond well to their favourite game getting criticised? No, of course not. Some folks take it too personally. But that isnāt unique to AoE IV. That happens all over the Internet. Iād imagine it happens here too, from time to time.
āFanboyā means excessive obsession and worship. Are you?
You are avoiding the problem when actually acknowledging it.
Because AOE2 players are numerous and hard to fight. When the fewer players of the ānicheā game, one that even the company running it openly humiliates, can be freely stomped on.
I know if I give you numerous examples, youāll start to ask me to do the t-test. But Iāll do it anyway so that other people can see and judge for themselves
Just compare the atmosphere and the level of coping:
In my experience, it normally means āanyone who likes the gameā, when used by someone who doesnāt.
What problem am I avoiding? I replied to you because you made a massive strawman about AoE IV fans that was pretty uncharitable to say the least. If an AoE II player did the same in a thread I was already active in, Iād probably reply as well!
You should probably check āThe curious case of AoE 4 graphicsā more. Iām very active in it
I replied to you, about something you posted. If you donāt understand how much I also argue against anyone being uncharitable, regardless of their favourite game, thatās a you problem.
In this very thread you can also find thousands of different ways of neglecting āthe lack of certain graphical detailsā (again, a neutral statement) and bashing whatever is used as a positive showcase of those certain graphical details. I did not even say you have the behaviors Iāve mentioned.
āFanboyā is often used derogatorily to describe some excessive behaviors. If you think you are always fair and calm, why do you think Iām talking about you? Why would you come and be their representative?
Like I said: I was already active in the thread. If you didnāt mean to generalise, you shouldnāt have generalised. If you have a specific problem with specific posters, why call out a whole community?
I consider āfanboyā as a narrower term rather than one that refers to the whole community. I didnāt say ācommunityā.
If you donāt consider yourself as one with such behaviors, you are not their representative. If you are fair and balanced, I would not think you are part of them. But if you immediately come to their rescue, albeit in a different stealthy manner, then Iād think differently.
Or if it is because you and I have different understanding of the meaning of āfanboyā, then my apologies. Iāll change the word I use.
You can think whatever you want, itās not like Iām going to hold it against you. If you want to consider my behaviour āstealthyā, or āpaidā, or whatever, feel free.
But Iām still probably gonna reply if you put an entire community on blast, sorry
I donāt think āfanboyā is necessarily bad. I donāt think being one is necessarily bad. But a lot of the Internet seems to think so these days. If you meant it to literally just mean the unreasonable hyper-defensive type, then sure. But there arenāt many of those, I donāt think. But hey, this is getting further and further from the point, and Iāve said what I want to say. PM me if you want to keep going.
Benefits of using the Bang engine which they know well from having worked with it in 3DEā¦
That was until 2022ā¦the work with Retold required more work than they thought and they had to put aside AoE 3 until wellā¦they cancelled the Baltic DLCā¦
Yes, the idea is to attract more people to the franchise in general, but having left AoE 3 aside now and for 20 years left (myself included) many wounded and resentful in the communityā¦
Yes, we are not as closed-minded as fans of 2ā¦ there will be some fans of 3 who are die-hard fans of the game, but generally we are open with the other games (although that doesnāt mean we canāt criticize the simplicity of 2 or the graphics of 4)ā¦
Sure, I think the sameā¦we just talk about how AoE 4 could be improved and in my case I started the saga with AoE 3, so it seems that nostalgia for 2 and AoM didnāt affect me back in the dayā¦
Yes, day and night cycle in AoE 4 would be great, because in the dark you can see that the buildings are lit by candles and it looks niceā¦
It makes sense since AoE 3 players have/have also played AoE 2 and AoM, whereas AoE 2 players never wanted/couldnāt know anything about AoE 3 and AoE 4 players are like new to the series (some come from Relic or Blizzard games) and havenāt had the chance to try AoE 3ā¦
Yes, thatās trueā¦ they put names but for the monarchs in Dominion (aka Regicide in the other games)ā¦
Thatās trueā¦but itās still just a simple comparison between a game from 2005 and 2021ā¦itās assumed that since itās more demanding, the 2021 game should be better than the 2005 gameā¦
This has aged badly, although Iām still rightā¦
Sure, I have no problems with the graphics of 4 (I play AoE Online and I love it despite being cartoonish)ā¦ the thing is that it lacks charisma and looks like a medieval CoH but with low and poorly defined graphics from 2011ā¦ CoH 3 has more defined graphics and is the same engine and only 2 years newerā¦
Beyond the things that could simply do with being improved in IV (of which there are several things), thereās a significant difference in art style. Some people will prefer III nomatter how good IV looks, and vice versa.
And thatās fine. The sad thing is that AoE III is no longer getting support.
Which is out of date, as both the water and blurry textures (which make up a lot of the discussion) were improved by the devs.
Adding animated animals to buildings should bring minimal performance cost given that the game can already handle hundreds of units. Replacing fauna (e.g. replace wolves with tigers on Asian Temperate/Subtropical or lions on Sahara) should be equivalent performance-wise and only require perhaps an extra gb or so of hard-drive space. The main cost will be dev time as to whether these changes are quick to add or worth the devās time.
