Good you looked it up on Wikipedia, that’s what I wanted.
Also you can see that a certain map type is most typical for any MOBA game at the moment.
Also and please quote me if I’m wrong, where do I state it should be one unit and the unit should be a hero and have special abilities? [Spoiler added]
That I do like the AOE Online version and the gear thingy and some of the progression stuff in it (but also I don’t like it strictly for those reasons), doesn’t say I want to see all of this in AOE IV or in competitive gameplay modes.
@PCS70 , I am just curious, you said many rts including AOE can be seen as an MOBA too. I don’t care about other RTSs but which part of aoe you think is MOBA? I think MOBA is just barebone version of RTSs, where everything else is stripped in order to favor combat, and regenerative resource (gold, mana) management oriented.
@“Pan Calvus” said:
As long as it’s an RTS, rather than some kind of 3rd person MMO with minions.
I’ve never liked hero units, even in aoe games I just lock those pretty princes(ses) up in a castle as soon as the game will let me.
…[edited]
If instead we’re using e-sports and competitive as code names for a style of game that is not Age of Empires, then that seems silly. Oae2 has a good e-sports component. That’s a big reason why it’s still popular.
Few things.
I haven’t seen a hero unit in AOE. But in AOM. Even if there is a hero unit in aoe, I haven’t seen him/her outside of campaign, for example in skirmish. Which hero units are you talking about?
And, I think you are wrong about AOE esport scene being the savior of AOE 2. That scene is hardly bigger than 50k and even the new expansions didn’t focus on the esport aspects. I think the game was successful even before it even launched an esport scene. This game has lots of die hard fans who are not vocal but actively make content for this series. I believe its the community made content, ensemble studio loyalty, and balance of the game which made AOE 2 sustainable for these many years. If aoe 1 was remastered along with AOE 2 hd, and AOE 3, I think people would also be playing aoe 1. I think aoe fans are split equally in all three games.
@Mehkind said:
I haven’t seen a hero unit in AOE. But in AOM. Even if there is a hero unit in aoe, I haven’t seen him/her outside of campaign, for example in skirmish. Which hero units are you talking about?
The ones in the campaigns. As you said yourself, that’s where they are found. I just don’t like keeping Jeanne of the Red alive. And doubly so if I either pretty much have to risk that unit or if I can’t use it at all because it’s too weak. As I said, a personal gripe. Not my thing.
@Mehkind said: @PCS70 , I am just curious, you said many rts including AOE can be seen as an MOBA too. I don’t care about other RTSs but which part of aoe you think is MOBA? I think MOBA is just barebone version of RTSs, where everything else is stripped in order to favor combat, and regenerative resource (gold, mana) management oriented.
I do agree it’s stripped down and then they added some more (MMO) RPG to it and gave it a faster pace, but these are all different elements added to the MOBA concept. Arena’s can be small and large as well. A game like Rocket League is MOBA too, only an e-Sports genre. Survival of the Fittest, also MOBA on a 3D engine in an extreme large battle arena.
So, it’s basically like the word says Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. A good most times symmetric map design that is for 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or 2v2v2v2 or 5v5 and 2v2v2v2v2 is considered as MOBA when all resources and land/water are equally shared, important part of a MOBA map together with symmetry.
For that reason you see certain pro players restart the game if one of them has one bunch of sheep and an elephant more than the other. I just call them pussies.
Let me explain to you exactly what MOBA is about, there seems to be some misunderstanding with you about the meaning of the word MOBA.
First, it’s short for Multiplayer Online Battle Arena and it doesn’t say anything about the gameplay. More precisely it’s a certain kind of map. It’s a map with fixed base locations and a top, middle and bottom lane. Other variant do exist too, even AOE maps with a certain design could be seen as a MOBA map style.
It’s nothing more, nothing less. In some other posts where you disagree with me about this, which you may and are entitled to of course you speculate further about the use of heros, special powers etc., but nothing of that I talk(ed) about or say with the words MOBA that AOE IV should become more a MMO type of game like DOTA.
Please read more carefully and look up am unknown term with Google knowing what it really comprehends before discussing with anyone else about it.
You could also sent a pm to ask me about it, I would be more than happy to explain this in private to you instead of washing your face in public.
ah ah … lol … wash your face in the public … Let me get you off with the fire extinguisher…in the public, in private, where you want us … Let’s start from the definition of MOBA: "Multiplayer online battle arena (MOBA), also known as Action Real-Time Strategy (ARTS), is a sub-genre of strategy video games that originated as a subgenre of real-time strategy, in which a player controls a single character in one of two teams. The objective is to destroy the main structure of the opposing team with the help of periodically spawned computer-controlled units that march forward along set paths. Player characters typically have different abilities and advantages that improve over the course of a game and that contribute to a team’s overall MOBA games are a fusion of action games, role-playing games and real-time strategy games, in which players usually do not construct either buildings or units. " Can this be okay? I’ve taken it from wikipedia. If we both agree on this statement, I can CONFIRM that I would not like AoE4 had MOBA elements. Now you talk about the MOBA as: “more precisely a certain type of map” “nothing more, nothing less”. I brought you your words! I for MOBA I mean that statement written above … But listen to you advice: lava faces in public but not something else … or at least not in public.
can you tell me where you read that I say, “PCS70 wants a game where there are skills to unlock for Heroes, Hero’s Progress System” ?? I said I would not like an AoE4 game with features written above. I then added that I would not even like a MOBA AOE4. Now, if you agree on the definition of MOBA written in the previous post (I took it from English wikipedia, and if it was a wrong definition, it would be corrected for it to be as truthful as possible) when you said that AoE 4 it could have MOBA elements, I just said I disagree about why I’m against the idea that a character (a hero, whatever it is) may have features / abilities to unlock during the game and experience battle after battle.
@PCS70 said:
I do agree it’s stripped down and then they added some more (MMO) RPG to it and gave it a faster pace, but these are all different elements added to the MOBA concept. Arena’s can be small and large as well. A game like Rocket League is MOBA too, only an e-Sports genre. Survival of the Fittest, also MOBA on a 3D engine in an extreme large battle arena.
??? Then with that analogy, Fifa, Call of duty, battle royal and pretty much every multiplayer game is MOBA too. Right??! Becasue they all have an arena. MOBA is the sub genre of an RTS. Usually the flow is: RTS > MOBA. FPS> Arena Shooter. RPG > RPG-like elements. Rouge-like > Rouge-lite. You see what I mean. Primary genre do not emerge from their subgenre.
So, it’s basically like the word says Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. A good most times symmetric map design that is for 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or 2v2v2v2 or 5v5 and 2v2v2v2v2 is considered as MOBA when all resources and land/water are equally shared, important part of a MOBA map together with symmetry.
There are no symmetric maps for age of empires, maps and resources are randomly generated. I was doing 4v4, one time and any enemy was right next to me, where as my friend should have been. The “symmetry” you are talking about only occurs when you lock the positions of ally unit when we begin the multiplayer match.
For that reason you see certain pro players restart the game if one of them has one bunch of sheep and an elephant more than the other. I just call them pussies.
That’s where we put the strategy. You know that “S” part of RTS. Other wise what’s the point of playing. It’s like an Olympic player didn’t want to play a chess game becasue he didn’t like the design of the chess board. Or worse, he surrendered because his opponent is keep taking chess units out. Doesn’t make sense. When these type of resource unbalancing happens, we do diplomacy. Many times I have teamed up with my enemy to weed out the “pro” player. That is in core design of the game, unless each and every map need to be made individually, and then maps are no longer appealing. Becasue once you have learned them, the game becomes easier, therefore MOBA-like.
@Mehkind
Yes, indeed. That’s exact were MOBA derives from. If Pacman would be an online game and other players would play the ghosts it could be called a MOBA game as well.
MOBA existed way back before Defense of the Acients (DOTA), League of Legends and Warcraft Online. E.g. Quake Online Battle Arena (■■■■, what’s in the name?), Doom, Duke Nukem 3D e.g., total different from AOE’s and DOTA’s RTS, they are MOBA FP shooters. The same is applicable for the ARTS genre with games like Commandos and others. Not because some developer took a RTS styled game map and turned it into some kind of RPG hero game which emphasizes more on the combination of agility and RTS together.
What’s really difficult to understand about four words with a very accurate and clear English meaning together leading to the abbreviation MOBA?
There are (custom) symmetric AOE maps, also found in campaign modes, so I don’t agree on that point, also not on the getting bored part. At least not when you talk about the competitive part of playing online. It should be fair, equal and exciting caused by RT interaction between players discussing the S-part, not because tricks and cheats from players who know them all for each and every kind of map.
But who am I to teach anyone something about the gaming industry from the past. I just play games since 1981 and I’ve played most of them all.
If I can find some extra spare time I will create a list of general terms used in the gaming industry, and also more related to AOE, with their explanations. So everyone knows and understand what people are talking about and is more suitable to discuss about it.
Only playing to win and therefor restarting or frustrating a multiplayer game is not a strategy, but it’s bad behavior. Regarding competitive gameplay I’m for more symmetric map designs and a good matchmaking mechanism and also some kind of reporting functionality.
@PCS70 said: @Mehkind
Yes, indeed. That’s exact were MOBA derives from. If Pacman would be an online game and other players would play the ghosts it could be called a MOBA game as well.
MOBA existed way back before Defense of the Acients (DOTA), League of Legends and Warcraft Online. E.g. Quake Online Battle Arena (hell, what’s in the name?), Doom, Duke Nukem 3D e.g., total different from AOE’s and DOTA’s RTS, they are MOBA FP shooters. The same is applicable for the ARTS genre with games like Commandos and others. Not because some developer took a RTS styled game map and turned it into some kind of RPG hero game which emphasizes more on the combination of agility and RTS together.
This is the most weird thing I have heard in a while. Not everything is MOBA. So let me ask you this, if point-n-click games have a multiplayer in them will that be MOBA too.
What’s really difficult to understand about four words with a very accurate and clear English meaning together leading to the abbreviation MOBA?
XD
There are (custom) symmetric AOE maps, also found in campaign modes, so I don’t agree on that point, also not on the getting bored part. At least not when you talk about the competitive part of playing online. It should be fair, equal and exciting caused by RT interaction between players discussing the S-part, not because tricks and cheats from players who know them all for each and every kind of map.
Yep, I want to make a correction, campaigns only have set maps. However I was thinking that you were talking about multiplayer alone when you said “1v1, 2v2, 4v4 or 2v2v2v2 or 5v5 and 2v2v2v2v2.”
But who am I to teach anyone something about the gaming industry from the past. I just play games since 1981 and I’ve played most of them all.
Yep, maybe that’s why you think everything is pretty much a MOBA in the end. I am too 27 year old, and I have too played many games, but I never had problem distinguishing between games and their genre. I think you are digging too much.
@Mehkind
Valve would love the way you think by crediting them solely the whole MOBA thing.
But from a historical point of view it’s just not true, that’s really a big misconception these days. Wikifakia puts it all together on one line and addresses it to just one kind of game style including this and that. That is totally incorrect especially if you get there your knowledge about the gaming industry from.
The games you and @CostlierParrot3 talk about and are referring to are formally called MOBA (MMO) RPG ARTS games. Like I stated many times before already, but don’t mind at all to repeat again and again, I would not like to see AOE IV end up with ONLY that kind of gameplay. So actually we agree on that. It’s the misconception about MOBA leading to this off-topic discussion.
We could have the same discussion about what’s actually called an e-Sports game these days, games are being put to easily into that just that category.
The list of commonly used terms here is very clear and short. All can be combined and used with each other to a certain extend and type of gameplay.
MOBA Multiplayer Online Battle Arena
MMO Massive Multiplayer Online
RPG Role Playing Game
ARTS Action RTS
RTS Real-Time Strategy
FP First Person Shooter
SP Single Player
MP Multiplayer (LAN)
MO Multiplayer Online
And so on…
So I’m really not digging, I’m just clarifying things the way they are and correcting some wrong assumptions for all the other readers on this forum.
With MOBA elements I mean some way for people to jump in through matchmaking into some kind of fair fixed set battle, which might be based on the most played and more symmetric designed maps or maps designed for a special kind of purpose with classic AOE gameplay. And it should be an optional and complete different gameplay section and part in the game.
And last, let me remind you that King of the Hill, Regicide and certain scenarios are MOBA RPG types of gameplay. So, it’s been there in AOE like forever. Also there are fairly symmetric MP/MO maps available which are heavily used by pro players.
I think I’m finished digging now that I reached China.
Now on topic again. I want both of those cookies. And I promise you both to just eat one of them per day or whenever I feel like eating one of that cookies. o:)
@PCS70 , respectfully, this is the bunch of nonsensical & unconnectable pile of BS I have ever heard. Can you tell me which genre is not a MOBA? (Does tying in multiplayer makes a thing MOBA?? )
@NormChanger
If you can’t name any other genre different from MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) yourself, you probably shouldn’t ask this question don’t you think so?
@PCS70 said: @NormChanger
If you can’t name any other genre different from MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) yourself, you probably shouldn’t ask this question don’t you think so?
I am asking you, respectfully. Again, does tying in anything multiplayer makes a game moba. Than monopoly is moba too.
@NormChanger
No and I also didn’t say that, but I did say that a ‘multiplayer online battle arena’ does make something a MOBA and not MMO, RPG, RTS and ARTS characteristics.
Respectfully, what do you not understand about the differences between MOBA, MMO and RPG?
So MOBA is not strictly tied to a MMO RPG ARTS game, like you guys seem to think over here. That’s all I wanted to make clear to you guys, but you still don’t seem to understand and get that very important point.
I am shocked to see 17% voted for AOE4 “RTS with “today’s” design philosophy i.e. moba type objectives, multiplayer-centric, competitive, shallow, fast paced, dlc and expansion riddled game”.
These people are not real AOE franchise fan, probably aged below 19 today, new Gamers without any clue what AOE used to mean to Gamers back in 2000s.
