Gameplay Feedback, I am afraid it's again is out of touché with RTS or E-Sports, also Casual Audience

@GepardenKalle & @TheBiz1

Problem is devs try to shape franchises into something, they can’t fit.

Did you guys play for fun or did you play competitive? The game turns into something very different in good hands. Let me say from the perspective of Starcraft 1&2 players, Age of Empires is a casual game, even more casual than C&C. You merely use slow units, that slowly place basic infrastructure, that’s not hard to learn and master.

The main reason why we never do see another RTS developer to get into E-Sport, because they dont understand gameplay mechanics of E-Sport. What is the big difference between SC2 and other RTS? Ah yes, the units can fly, are fast and do lot of damage. Is AoE anything like it? You just build a wall and your stuff is 100% save. In Starcraft the enemy can appear from any location.

Flying wasn’t invented in the Middle Ages. There are just no mechanics available to turn a historical game into E-Sports. Even C&C RA3 and DoW3 failed, as it did not have tier 3 Air units. That’s why the entire E-Sport talk simply sounds like “we have no idea, sales people told us to say so, so we can make 1 dollar more”. While the gameplay turns into something very bad, as they try to shape game more similar to Starcraft, but not with the stuff that makes Starcraft good.

Also they make units for e-sport games very fragile, and that is not good for casual. How do Casuals play Starcraft? Ah yes, the Tier3 Air Units in Starcraft are the strongest ones and they can reach any location.

Does any unit in the Middle Ages function as a flying Terran Battlecruiser or Toss Carrier? That’s why the entire "E-sports Audience for AoE4 is bad. Even the most casual player, with very lowest expectations, understands that cant be a thing.

Not entirely true, AoE III had 5-7

starcraft is hard to play because they artificially increased the default speed to fastest. if you played aoe on 4X speed, it would have the same effect.

anyways aoe is not a single map. the way you talk about it you obviously haven’t played any good ones. there are maps where walling is impossible. maybe most of the aoe settings are casual, but the way you describe the game would be like using big game hunters to describe all of starcraft

and your idea of esports is so narrow-minded that it’s not even worth discussing. aoe obviously doesn’t have flying units. it has navies and armies. and some terrains where both navies & armies can traverse

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Really? I haven’t played it in awhile, what civs have 5-7?

I like how how people like you can render judgement without playing the game.

7 Likes

They are passionate …

But Beta will look completely different

You’re just a sc2 maximalist, there is a reason why sc2 is dying while aoe is thriving, people disliked the “apm” based gameplay of sc2.

Correct… SC2 requires a extreme amount of APM, the same for age 2 lol… That’s why I used to like relic games they require micro but also strategy, in sc2 the faster wins.

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They want to make it more welcoming to new players.

You can sort of tell what it means…

I hope gameplay turns out alright, but I’m not holding my breath and not hyped.

But I usually keep the hype low for most games after all.

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Native Americans and Asian civs have 5 villagers.

Europeans with the exception of Portugal, Germany and I believe Ottomans have 6 settlers.

Portugal and not entirely sure Ottomans have 7 settlers.

Germany has 3 settler wagons, but they are basically worth 6 settlere both in resources and gatherspeed.

Edit: Ottomans do have the “regular” 6 settlers.

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The thing is people are “narrow-minded”, they only see their point of view, that’s why a game designer has to be aware, people might speak about the same mechanic, but have in mind completely opposite opinion, that’s why a game designer has to understand what people mean and triangulate from all views the right conclusion.

“I do not say my opinion, I do say their opinion.”

Again, in Opinion of a Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 player, Age of Empires 2 is slow a casual game.
He does not get the facts wrong, he simply has the APM and skill to play a harder and faster game.
From his point of view, Age of Empires is a simple 2 or 3 times slower game.

My point is, if they put randomly mechanics together, it will end in another “FrankenMOBA” like DOW3.
And they did. If you check what they did put together by AoE4, it looks very miss matched.

With the current concept they won’t please E-Sports, Casual and AoE players.
As each group has a completely opposite opinion what the game should be.

One way to make a game please them all is have different settings and options between Single&Coop x Multiplayer, OR different Game Modes, just like there is Death Match and Random Map in AoE2… Call it Standard Game or Competitive Game, add all the automatic stuff to Standard, let players have their 2 hour long games where they build all houses in a row and get one of each building for that nice army march, units in full detail, historical accuracy.

And a Competitive Game Mode, where you start with 5-6 villagers and only need another 5-10 to get into action. No auto-scout, auto-queue, auto-whatever is coming next. 50-50 Eco/Military macro, units very responsive to allow micro, etc

I dont get how you say age 2 start is lame by 2021 Standard Just to conpare it with SC2?

Let an SC2 Player See Viper Play and Micro. Its Not Casual ^^

With the way AoE2’s recent changes have been, I am afraid AoE4 will have a very boring meta

Well in Starcraft 2 Legacy of the void you start with 12 workers. And so far most people play the version with 12 workers at start, despite they can anytime simply play Wings of Liberty or Heart of the Swarm with 6 workers at start.

+1

I think its very vital to handle single-player and PvP from the ground up differently.

We have seen quite a lot situation where something is fun in single-player, but breaks multiplayer.
So it gets nerfed its lame in single-player, but multiplayer is still broken.

1 Like