General balancing topic

I am creating this topic for all players who are not happy with any changes that Patch ESOC has made. If you are not happy then we need to say exactly what is bothering us, it is not enough to just say that it is bad or that we do not like it, if we want changes we need to make constructive criticisms!

So I want each player to make a list of what they think the EP has changed in relation to the original game that I would like it not to apply.

This topic need not be limited to that either, and we can also say general suggestions for changing the balance, either from the original game or as it is in the ESOC Patch. However, I would like this topic to be restricted to questions of balancing civilizations, units and cards, and not desing, anti-cheater, graphics or others.


Just for reference:
This is the ESOC Patch:


Words we could use include:

Civ. Which Civ is involved? / All?.
Reason: Why this change fills a hole and which hole (historical, unitstats, strategy, gameplay, game-balance etc)
What is. Explain the change/idea.
Historic link. Link to a source, connecting the civ and this feature.
Extras. All extra content involved.

Read first ^
Below is only for overambitious:
For Card Reference:

Card Costs

After the ideas are shared, added to, debated, refined and eventually gets polished:
AoE3 uses the format of valuing a card based on Age, HC requirement and a +200 free start budget.

Start Budget: 200
Age ? x 200
HC step: 0 10 25 40
^ (0=0, 10=1, 25=2, 40=3) (+100 per step & then multiplied with Age)

Ex: 600 wood, Age II, HC 0.
Math: 200+200x2+200x0x2= 600.
Ex. 3 Falconets, Age IV, HC 25.
Math: 200+200x4+100x2x4= 1800
(Few exceptions exists).

(My memory might be off but as I remember it) :
Infinite Cards count as Double cost (exception 300 x resource)
Team Cards: count as double cost.
Send twice: count as +50% cost
Settler-cards: count about +50% cost.


You can put aside any of the above,
no limits, no restraints.

Lets hear some ideas ! <<

–> The Buff or Nerf of civilizations must be made by changing their basic rate of collecting all resources, just like the Handicap effect. That way it is possible to keep civilization bonuses virtually untouchable, and it would be fair for all civilizations. This undoubtedly, I believe to be my best idea for the general balance of civilizations.

–> A civilization’s Nerf or Buff decision must be based on Winrate competitive games. The sample of “25%” of the best players can be used, or another% value that seems appropriate. If a civ has a winrate much higher than 50% it must be Nerf, and if it is far below then it must be Buff. The choice to counter civilization will not affect statistics, if the opponent does not know which civilization he will play against before the match starts.
–> Macehualtin, Yumi, Longbowmen they need to receive 3x vs heavy infantry in some way, either by card like Gurkha (Royal green jackets) or by Counter Infantry Rifling, or otherwise.
Saloon Age 1 = Monastery
–> Royal guard updates must cost 800f 800c to be commensurate with normal guard updates.
–> Saloon needs to be able to be built at age 1, as well as the Monastery of Asian civilizations, so you can know which mercenaries are available before choosing the deck.
–> Spahi and Urumi trainable in the stable and barracks, with a fair price and population. As an initial suggestion: Spahi 250f 250c and 5pop, and Urumi 150f and 150c and 3pop.
–> Native civilizations need compensation from European factories for late game. As a suggestion, 2 cards with Warrior Priests could be created, and if the player leaves this one they will not be able to recover them, as well as the factories.It shouldn’t cost population. The Aztecs would need to be adjusted in some way, because they can already create this unit at the stake.
–> Plantation cost for 400w.
–> Cuirassier needs some kind of Nerf in the game late. I honestly don’t know how to do this, maybe an alternative will be to apply a small training time Nerf along with the Thouroughbreds card.
–> Add a small multiplier against heavy infantry for all heavy hand infantry. In this way they would do reasonably well against musketeer-type units, and would remain the same against the other units. I don’t know the fair multiplier value, because I haven’t done the tests yet.
–> The Dance Hall card must provide a specific mercenary for each civilization, as well as Asian civilizations, and this mercenary will be the option of the guard and imperial update available to be made.
–> If the Dance Hall change is applied, then the effect of the Improved Mercenaries card could be reduced to 15%.
A vote could be taken, or another way to choose the mercenary of each civilization.
–> German civ: Move the Long-Range Infantry Hitpoints card to age 2, so that they are useful for Crossbowman.
–> German civ: Change the negative effect of the Soligen Steel card to make the Doppelsoldner cost 33% more. Reducing speed makes the unit useless.
–> German civ: The Spanish Riding School card applies 20% for Warwagon and hold 10% for other cavalry.
–> Mamelukes, Elmetis and Lil Bombard need to be available at age 3 in the same way as other mercenaries.
– > The price of all mercenaries would need to be recalculated in order not to have OPs or weaknesses.

German civilization is my favorite so more suggestions for change were for it.

Here are some various New Card ideas for the ‘Dutch’ Civilisation.
Most of these cards considers the Dutch Civ’s challenged state in the Colonial Age but also valuable gains in various other Ages.

Dutch (Mercenaries)
Reason: Mercenaries are historically accurate to use for Dutch as per their History:

Trade-Empire Bureaucracy

Effect: All Outlaws & all Mercenaries arrives/are trained -5% quicker and gain +20% hitpoints but at +10% cost.
Age: II HC 25
Team Card:


Bank +1 Build Limit merged

Bank of Amsterdam/-Rotterdam
Effect: Bank Build Limit +1.
Age I-> III, HC 0.
Unique: Shippable Once->Twice.

Has similar/identical historical significance as in the past format; 2 cards turned into one with no gameplay change, adding +1 Card Slot.

New Bank Card Age I:

Bank Filial

Ships 1 half-paid bank-wagon
Age I, HC 25


New Bank Card

Background: Dutch - Banks on Land, early or lategame. (These are without historical checkup, but might exist)

-> Name: Bank-front Facades
Ships a half-paid Bank-Wagon and Reduces Banks -hitpoints,
-construction time &
-resource cost by -30%

Age III, HC 25:

Or: (Not both)

-> Name: Loanshark Banking //
Baiting Banks
Forfeits Fishing boat -cost and -train time by +100%, whilst Banks costs -25% less and gain +25% Gold Production Rate.
Age I: HC 40

Reason: (Encourages Age II-III Rush and works lategame.)
Clarify: Doubles Fishing boat cost and Fighing Boat Train time…


You only think about the competitive players, but you don’t think about the large number of recreational players.In fact, most players are just for fun, balance is the second, not everyone like this kind of competitive game

The wall doesn’t really do much for competitive players. Why should it be reduced to 1500?

Why does China weaken but not strengthen? If you change that, China will have to ff.But actually China times 3 is not weak, China is weak in times 2, hope you can strengthen the combat capacity of his times 2, the weakening of the wall, China is more difficult to play!

1 Like

I guess just reverting the change on “old han reform” card and you will be happy :smile:

Are you saying the game should be balanced around players who play just for fun and don’t care about balance? That is generally not a good approach to balance any game. You have to balance mainly at the competitive level, because that’s where it actually matters - as you’ve correctly stated yourself.


balance matters for fun though.

balance is a hard thing to do, usually its not a bad idea to go with what competetive players say but you shouldn’t do that if it alienates the rest of the player base.

like i play treaty a fair bit and i know there are some balance issues there i would like to see changed/improved but if the balance team only cared about 1 vs 1 where tournies are played then the issues my part of the community face wont be adresed and i think that would be a shame.

take france, a pretty medium faction in 1 vs 1 (from what ive read) but they are broken in other game modes, so clearly france should be nerfed, it can then be given buffs in the earlier stages of the game to still make them viable for rush games.

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I believe balance should exist amongst all players who partake in a game.
Amongst Competitive Player Groups and amongst improvisational fun-build buddies.
And in some grey-zones of communities inbetween.

A New Building feature of the half-forgotten building: Livestock Pen

Livestock Farm

^an upgrade beyond Livestock Pen

New Upgrade:
“Livestock Product Farming”
Livestock Pen -> Livestock Farm

Added Feature:
All animals at the Livestock Farm generates food based on fatten-rate and current fat. (halves animals fattening whilst producing).

Raising domesticated animals additionally brought farmers welcomed returns during in-between seasons of butcherings.
Animal-products such as eggs, milk and wool found their local markets from livestock of Laying Hens, Dairy Cattle and more.

Player Guide:
Unlike Factories building limit, you can establish as many new Livestock Farms as you like, but can only have 1 at a time.

Various Civilisations gains access to cards adding an unique +1 Upgrade Limit to a version of their Livestock Farm, beyond the start 1 Upgrade Limit.
Dairy Farm
Hens Farm
Cashmere Farm

If there were pieces you enjoyed, show it with a like and more material will be shared amongst us who sees some fun with this idea, and the devs could approve of it into AoE DE. :slight_smile:


1 Like

I would love to see the livestock pen get a little more love, and some auto-generating resources sounds like a great way to get some more use out of it.

1 Like

I used the ep patch. It was great.But I really think the British are too strong. Can we weaken them? The most important thing is that I won GiveUAnxiety with Japan.

And I use the ep. It’s great

If balance is to be maintained, India must weaken .There are maps where India is too strong.India can be invincible with a map of cattle and sheep.

1 Like

Actually, it’s really hard to keep balance, even the game like Dota2 also have to update frequently. So it’s seems impossible to get perfect balance both in convention and fast games at once. How about prepareing two edition, one is for convention and the other is for fast games. The difference between two edition is only dates, don’t needs to change models.
PS India is really OP😭