Genitours to Spanish as a team bonus (addition)

So basically I mean to depict the Spanish team bonus as:

  1. Trade units generate +25% gold (good in team games, useless in 1vs1)
  2. Genitours available at Archery Range starting in Castle Age (great in 1vs1, weak in team games)

It is quite historically accurate for the Spanish to have Genitours, which they used against the Berbers. It may come with the trade bonus being toned down to 20%. This effectively strengthens their forte of a trash Civilization.

This was for History. For Balance, Spanish are below 47% and Berbers are above 51% so I think (if anything) both civs will come closer to 50%. Moreover to counter cavalry archers, the Berbers have Camel Archers, which is quite a solid unit.

The necessary changes to Berbers can be:

  1. Team bonus: Castles (and Kreposts) work 25% faster.
  2. Castle Age UT:

Kasbah as the free bonus may sound weird but think that first you need to get to castle age and then get a castle. After then you have a choice to produce units or get the tech/wait for your ally to get the tech. Contrast that to the Huns which have a solid team bonus which helps them to a much bigger extent and starts in Feudal Age. The training time of Castle Age Camel Archers may be modified if it seems strong.

Not sure how I feel about it.

Yes. It would be historically more accurate.
Yes Spanish could use some love.
Lately they have been a little bit on the weaker side in high level and pro level Arabia games. (Though not completely terrible).

However, Berbers are not as strong at the pro level and on average to high ELO their knights / camels are their winning move (so removing Genitours probably wouldn’t effect their winrate much).

On the other hand as Spanish player you probably do not want to invest a lot into archery ranges as you lack crossbows. Thereby also not using the Genitours…

So no plan for UT yet?

Either way i doubt devs will implement this. Removing a unit and giving it to another civ? Regardless of how realistic it is. Mayan best eagles as an example.

If anything they’ll simply give access to both berber and Spain. Even then im doubtful.

Imo this is a huge bonus. Specifically for the reasons you mentioned. Berbers have to decide whether they will tech or start training.

Isn’t it also argued as one of the most useful castle age UTs?

That would be the strongest Teambonus in the game. Imagine a Mongol ally could then pump out Mangudai a lot faster right after they build their castle…

If have Berbers, why will you have Mongols on your team?

Mostly helps with production of Trebuchets, which will have the same effect in either case. It is like giving a cheap tech for free in Early Castle Age, when only some specialised Civilizations will be creating their UU.

Most of us agree that the Castle Age versions of most UUs are underused.

If anything, I see them getting a Skirmisher bonus to maintain their status quo in trash wars. Their focus on cavalry also means Skirmishers (previously genitours) are seen now and then to counter Halberdiers. At the moment, the Skirmisher has the least variety. May be creation speed, melee armor or the best - attack rate.

Just to point out the Skirmisher bonuses:

  1. Magyar team bonus: unaffected
  2. Thumb Ring: accuracy increased (good accuracy even without TR); no change in attack rate
  3. Ethiopian civ bonus: unaffected
  4. Pavise: unaffected
  5. Mayans cost modifier: unaffected

We already have 2 UTs for range at the moment.

No. I don’t understand this repeated incessant need for divergence from the game implementation.

Just so that Spain can get genitours you want this overhaul and rebalance. Going so far as to strip identity from berbers. Forcing them to go foot skirms instead of them literally being an all cav civ.

Its one thing to add identity its another to dream up overhauls every time you have an idea

Or Genitours could be like the Steppe Lancers, and be available to all Iberian civs: Spanish, Portuguese, and Berbers.

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Spanish don’t need more trash, they already have perfect trash. Even the increased efficiency against CA of the genitour wouldn’t help them as they have siege ram + halberdier to deal with those already.

And to who else would you give El Dorado anyway? The other two meso civs have an imp UT that buffs several units as opposed to just eagles.

The Hun and Briton bonus are already very useful in TG, I don’t see any problem with a civ that could boost its allies’ castles for free.

team bonuses don’t affect your enemies duh

As much as I would like to see the historical accuracy of this change, it would mess too much with the balance.

Yes, spanish do need something, but a new trash unit isn’t the solution, since they already have the other 3 lines FU. On thop of that, their TB is fine, very useful in TG coupled with their FU paladins.

The other reason is that berbers are a solid civ in a good spot, not too weak, not too strong, so messing with their TB and UT it doesn’t really make sense. You would risk to buff a civ that doesn’t need any buffs. It may seem minor, but the fact that you don’t need to tech into kabah, means that it’s way easier to switch into CamA, which are already a strong unit. And then they would need a new UT for castle age, which again, there is the risk that it’s either useless or OP.

There are other ways to buff spanish, and for the historical accuracy of the genitour, it would be enough to change their name with a more accurate one.

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because we all love thread sniping…

spanish buff: monastary=: 100w + sanctity is free

But that would ruin the Berbers. Leave the Spanish alone, they are perfectly fine. The only really missing siege engineers and full foot archers. If they had those techs, they would become much stronger.

Their trade team bonus is very strong for late game. 33 extra gold goes a long way.

Insta BL woud be ok for them and help their feudal age. Also in an unralated note i would make either missionaties affected by BL or that they could pick relics, right now for a little extra movility they have a lot of extra penalties.

Further ahead in the future I hope we get more regional units, if so arquebussiers could be great for them and most of the mediterránean civs

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Exactly how long ago did you play the game?

2001, I may hace some problema keeping up with the updates of HD since i’m very used to the first 2 games

Since AoA, Missionaries no longer need a Castle. Missionaries are also affected by Bloodlines.

Since DE, Missionaries are also affected by Husbandry.

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