I mean that bonus against building for any archer sounds silly… I prefer give them +1 range instead of bonus vs buildings… or more proyectiles per shot…
Sounds like… oh an elephant, bonus vs Buildings instantly, no matter they only shoot arrows…
The damage vs buildings is better. EAs can destroy Towers and TCs with it, normal Archers cannot.
That would be a really bad idea, actually. One of the biggest perks of the Elephant Archer is that it automatically takes a front position just in front of other archers, so it catches almost 100% of automatically-targeted archer fire. Since they have 300-ish hp and like 10 pierce armor, that means a group of archers that would normally die in like 10 seconds instead dies in more like 60.
Swapping out two hand cannons for a single EA in a group of 10 costs you 5% of your DPS but DOUBLES your health BEFORE armor, and after armor it’s more like quadrupling it.
But, because you only have one unit holding all that health, standard counters don’t work well. Try sending halbs into 8 hand cannons and an EA, they’ll laugh as they tear you to shreds.
All they really need is to see enemies coming in time to actually get to that defensive position, and they’ll become a truly marvelous utility unit.
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Yes, an it is ridiculous imo. Get back Obsidian arrow and buff it… It would be much better in this way of think
What?
Indians never had Obsidian Arrows, and EAs would be massively OP if they did.
Why so literal? I refer to archers with bonus against building in general. It was an example
Look at all these noobs who go for bombard tower pushes late game… Better make donjons next time Kappa
I do believe there is quite a sizeable difference in price and availability between foot archers and ele archers, hmmmmm?
So what?..
hahaha true… so people should just keep posting to keep this idea on top until the devs see it…
i think elephant archers should have their negative CA armour removed, they should also be trainable from the archery range after shatagni is researched
and that is my contribution to get people to argue (less obvious than laser beams)
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Their LOS is 10 after bracer, or are you suggesting to make it 13?
Yes he is
eye of sauron level LOS
also in comparison, mongols and their bros get 12 LOS hussars… with the speed of a bullet… thats way more oppressive than giving a lumbering, super expensive, hard to mass brick 13 LOS
2 Likes
They are okay against skirmishers, but halberdiers is actually a pretty solid counter to them. Unlike archers or cav archers Elephant archers dont deal any bonus damage to halbs (only +2 with parthian tactics), so fully upgraded they deal 9 damage to a halberdier, while taking 66 damage.
So they need 7 shots to kill a halberdier, while the halb only needs 6 attacks to kill the elephant archer.
You will rarely have them massed enough to kill halbs before they arrive and they move much much slower than halbs. (base speed 0.8 vs 1.0). That is actually my main issue with the elephant archer. They just get absolutely wrecked by pikes/halbs. I think Parthian tactics should give them +4 bonus damage, same it does with the Cavalry Archer unit.
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i think halbs will still murder them, which is ok, like most units there is a time and place for everything. TK dont need to murder archers, they murder every melee unit in the game. in the same way ele archers are ok being rekt by halbs. thats also why you dont mass them, and why they are actually just a screen for your ranged units… for screening your ranged units against ranged. rams arent meant to screen ranged units from melee attacks either…
skirms, HC, FU CA… these are all things india should be making depending on the situation, they can eat the halbs
thats why imo the ele archer only needs some minor tweaks, the issue is with the civ itself if anything (again minor tweaks)
I agree, that is why I also proposed only two more damage, being tied to an imperial age upgrade. I think that is a minor tweak, might even be less useful than the line of sight, which would also be a welcome change.
I dont want them to wreck halbs, just not be as terrible against them, so that if your enemy switches into halbs to kill your elephant archers, you can provide a meat shield of your own halbs and the elephant archers can contribute a bit better.
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That’s why I don’t think you’ll ever want to build JUST EAs. Alone they have many counters, but if you mix them with Indian Hand Cannons, you have a hard counter for halbs AND a hard counter for archers. Then their only choice is to go cavalry, which get countered by the Imperial Camels.
Or siege, I suppose, but EAs actually counter siege pretty dang well. Unlike arbs it takes 6-7 shots for a mangonel to kill them, so you can pretty much just walk through the rubble shooting at them until they’re dead.
All they need is the los to fill their niche properly and I think they’ll be an extremely good unit. Never the bulk of your army, but often the core of it.
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How comes that more LOS will make Elephant Archers more useful? They are slow!!, the Elephant Archer needs a true buff, not that absurd gimmick.
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More LOS means ypu can control engagments better, because you get more time to micro into position.
It will also synergize with Trebuchets and Bombard Cannons.
Micro with Elephant Archers is a joke right.
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