The goth infantry flood is absolutely one of if not the the hardest strat to fight against in early imp
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I am not necessarily disagree. But I think early feudal is also one of their weakness. Even late castle is can also be a problem against non-archer civs. LS extra 1 MA helped a lot at this situation though.
This is little bit irrelevant. Does anyone know what happen to aoestats.io? That website was really helpful to see at what in game time a civ is strong or weak. Also we could compare play rate and win rate patch by patch.
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I get these unicorn Infantry civs: Aztecs, Japanese, Slavs, Bulgarians and Teutons, but Celts? Turks? meh and the most weird one, Khmer??? Khmer is known to auto-lose vs Infantry civs.
Regarding TG, there is no counter to mass of War Elephants in AOE, it’s the most pop AND res efficient unit in the game, the ONLY Halb that attempts to even counter them is the Goths Halb, which is the best one universally due to: training time, cost and 10 extra pop bonus.
Goths Infantry spam is the strongest reliable late game in AOE, even better than Magyas composition, putting aside fantasy armies like War Elephants. In order to deal with it you gotta have a very unique Infantry civ, which there are like 5 of them. The rest, 35, just fall into either defeat or being slowly drain out of gold due to inefficiency dealing with infantry swarm.
You’re just doing the very convinient thing, giving Goths an eco bonus, bravo, what’s next, giving eco bonus to Magyars, Byzantines, Bulgarians and Portuguese and we’re going to end up with a very uninspired game, relying on methodical thinking rather than inovative design. Among all 39 civs, it’s healthy to have some who actually lack any eco bonus, please release yourself from this systematic approach.
Khmer scorpions want to know the location of your infantry.
And can you please release yourself from this systematic comments in every single balance thread and put some innovative design ideas that we can discuss on?
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I have suggested a very similar thing several times before. I think it’s good, but it has to be balanced by only affecting animals that belong to the Goth player during map generation, rather than every animal on the map. Just give the animals tags to determine which player they are associated with, and it should be fine. Probably…
We are playing the same game.
We are not playing the same game.
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VAT? Scorpion lose to mass Huskarls/Eagles. Unless you’re a BF player, then I cant argue.
Release myself? You guys are too uninspired, the same exact approach by each one of you.
Ah yes, because you are going to use scorpions only, Hussars exist for a reason.
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Scorpions are specifically designed to counter exactly those units when massed, especially when you’re khmer. The only way I can see huskarls winning that sort of fight is if they somehow come in super spread out from every possible angle which even on open maps isn’t likely given there’s often forward buildings/woodlines blocking several angles. Not to mention any meatshield unit like hussars immediately stops that from ever being possible, resulting in even more horrible fights for the huskarls.
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Then, just move +10 pop cap bonus to castle age😂.
It just work in theory but different in reality. Scorpion is very expensive / slow and hard to upgrade to heavy scorpion in early imp. Huskarls are much faster and high PA of huskarl negate more than half of the damage from Scorpion. Huskarl and infantry spam come faster than deathball of mass scorpion. Even after managed to build mass scorpion, Goth player can raid eco without engaging fight with scorpion in open map.
Goth also have BBC to counter Scorpion. Their tech tree is not as bad as many people think. Hussar is not an ideal meatshield vs Goth considering how dirt cheap thier halb is. Matchup of Khmer vs Goth is definitely bad for Khmer when game reach imp.
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And your same exact opposition in every single thread without putting any new idea is so much inspiration for us.
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Balance is not only for open maps. If you considering open maps only, then there’s plenty of chances to beat Goth before imp spam. It’s not like goth can always get to their infantry spam all the time
Even mayans have a chance with early aggression. But if you talking closed maps and assume that Goth can get to their imp spam then you must assume civs like khemer can get to scorp hussar or ballista elephants hussar too
It was a pain in the ■■■ facing ballista eles with hussar and treb support in blackforest as goth recently. 60 halbs were flattened in about 5 seconds by 30 or so eles, it was crazy
Onagers didnt do enough specially being sniped by hussar and ele repositioning
I coulda won it for sure though but ended up having to defend my base from another guy(was a ffa)
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I agree with the premise, but I can’t think of a good new “hard to use” bonus.
The Chinese start (+3 vills, -200 res) or a version thereof could have been great.
Or something that requires a very tight build order to make good use of.
I don’t think a hunt bonus can have the same kind of effect.
Has Anybody just thought about that the whole “full infantry” concept is just nothing for pros?
It’s ok Goths aren’t good at pro level, not every civ needs to be good at pro level.
Start with +2 villagers, -X food, -Y wood. X = 150, Y = 25. Apparently that’s the only one left I think.
Yeah and that’s very unfortunate. LS +1 MA slightly made them viable but only for ladder play. I think the Perfusion is the main problem here. If it would give Goths versality instead of one dimension play, we could see a difference.
I’ve done it quite a few times and it does work, if only because I mostly play arena - on open maps I’d be the one raiding goths to death long before they were considering clicking up or even before/right in the middle of placing a castle 11.
Why are you bringing up halbs vs one of the best halb killers in the game? The hussars can just run to the side of those while being melted by the scorps before getting anywhere near them.
Doesn’t mean they survive. Remember the entire huskarl mass potentially gets hit by every scorp shot, its not like archers or even hand cannons which only damage 1 unit at a time. On top of that their pierce armour isn’t infinite, its still 10 armour vs 17 damage + another 1 damage bolt, meaning the entire mass takes either 2 or 18 damage per volley. Most of them die before even reaching the scorps as a result.
Problem is Khmer should be waaaaaaay faster to imp than goths in every single game in which they don’t die or yolo (and win before imp is considered) in feudal/castle. Which means huskarl spam will likely not come online fast enough to stop the scorps from being massed. Not to mention, worst case scenario you have hand cannons as khmer.
As for goth cannons, well, how many do you have and how good are you at keeping them alive? Whether or not they actually beat scorps is a matter of how many you can spam and your micro. This is easier said than done in my experience.
My proposal for Goths is:
Nerfs:
- Infantries 15/25/30/35% cheaper in Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age.
- Loom bonus is removed.
- Infantry attack bonus against buildings is removed (it was already minimal bonus).
- Hunt bonus is removed (it was minimal and unnecessary bonus as well)
Buffs:
- Villagers gather gold from 33% of food of huntables (100 gold from a boar for instance).
- Villager attacks 25% faster (it will also increase arrow number 25% when villagers garrison in buildings).
Would they get access to Arson in return? The fact that Huskarls can take down Castles with few losses and not relying on siege seems pretty unique. I wouldn’t want that removed, they’re like the Tarkans of infantry.
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Yes, I thought Goth get access to Arson in return. I think these kind of very small bonus is unnecessary in this game. I also don’t understand why arson is that much expensive tech which is 150f 50g. 80f 50g is more reasonable.
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