Give Spanish crossbowmen

And remove thumb ring. The fully upgraded all trash options can go to another civ. I don’t think its necessary for the Spanish but crossbowmen definitely are.

It makes sense historically and also for balance reasons because crossbows will make them much better in 1v1 arabia without making them OP on nomad and closed maps because crossbows are not used there typically

I would remove instead Heavy Cavalry Archers and keep thumb ring.


TR doesn’t mean ■■■■ for Skirmishers. So practically they will still have FU trash


It means like 15 accuracy but ya pretty much.

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I see no reasons for giving spanish x-bows actually.
It’s somewhat their identity they only have archers. I think it’s completely fine.


Do we really need another civ that can spam xbows? I like that Spanish tree is more unique.


this will just turn them into another fast xbow civ. discount to both fletching and bodkin will simply encourage xbow play

so while you might be happy with almost every civ’s meta being archers into xbow, many people dont want yet another civ doing it. there’s many other ways to make spanish more viable in 1v1 on open maps

most of the civs are primarily balacned around gameplay over history. or do we seriously need to list the million transgressions?

conversely for example the push for genitours becoming regional is primarily for gameplay reasons, and the fact it fits historically is convenient. whereas your idea simply homogenises the meta

stop trying to change civ design. Spanish make sense and have their maps where they are strong.

No they wont be playing archers consistently. Conqs are very good better than archers. So you will still get conq play or early archer timing into conq. But since conqs need bloodlines and husbandry i suspect players will still be going for the more traditional scouts opening

But the option of crossbows at least early castle age will improve arabia play while not affecting nomad and closed maps at all. Exactly what the Spanish need

And you people act like crossbows are an op unit. Theyre not at all. Specially in lower elos. Learn how to use a mangonell plz

Rattan Archers are also better than regular archers, your point?

people in high elo mix their own Mangonel with Crossbows and Crossbow is not OP because it wins fights, but because you can boom very well behind it while booming with Knights is hard.

the Spanish don’t need anything, they have their place in the game which is Nomad and Arena and Teamgames. This is way more than some other civs get, for example take Aztecs, they are basically only good on Arabia.

Like if you want to play a civ with strong UU and Castle Age Knights and Crossbows go play Vietnamese or Chinese idk or even Franks/Burgundians.

I support this for the historical accuracy

Lol what are you smoking bro? aztecs only good on arabia?

aztecs can hang on any map except late water with literally no bad matchups with any civ and are top tier in arena also and theyve been that way for years

He is just a noob with the biggest mouth on the forum lol

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They are still very strong but most people don’t consider them top tier anymore here. That partly might be due to the nerfs they received in recent times but more importantly I think it’s the fact they there is too many counter civs to aztecs here (teutons, bohemians, hindistanis, gurjaras, poles, turks, byzantines).

Aztecs have been powercrept hard on Arena where Burgundians, Teutons, Poles, Bohemians and probably a few more are better than them on this mode. Hell probably even Malay, Slavs, Turks, Saracens and Portuguese are better than Aztecs on Arena these days. They are like top 10 at best on Arena because besides all-in Monk clown style they have NOTHING going for them on Arena, very bad Imp and the moment someone mixes a few Knights your Eagles just die.

And on hybrid maps like 4 Lakes, or or Nomad they understandably suck.

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I think it is acceptable for the Spanish to get crossbowmen.

It’s both historically and improving their inflexibility in Feudal age. Regarding civ identity, I think the Spanish are really represented by their threatening Conquistadors in Castle age, not by their lack of crossbowmen. Even if they could get crossbowmen, there’ll be still Bulgarians in the game who are a civilization without crossbowmen.


I don’t think adding crossbowman is enough. The Spanish need a treatment similar to the the Indians/Hindustanis one, just little less drastic.

They are god tier on nomad and trash on arabia. And no, that’s not fine. It’s not fine for a civ to be really good on some niche situations and regular leaning to bad on the one that 70% of the games are played in.

Their main issue is imo (same as korean) that they have no major bonus aside of the cheap blacksmith. The faster building is only meaningful when castle dropping and it doesn’t save much villager time unless you’re walling half the map before feudal. And then to balance this out they are given one of the strongest UU in castle age, making conquistadors their only identity.

I’d remove the gunpowder and cannon galleon bonus with something that resembles the medieval spanish more (and not the XVI century colonial empire) and nerf conquistadors a little bit. The idea of genitours as regional units could work if used wisely.


Spanish need a nerf on Nomad maps, and a buff for arabia.
Doing the same thing with Sicilians (Faster building bonus don’t apply in Dark age for Nomad) and nerf conq melee armor in castle age (1 less melee armor means Knights and Camels need one less hit to kill conqs).
New bonus: Berry bushes contain 30% more food (helps on arabia)
Blacksmith bonus extended to University techs.


Are Spanish even this OP on nomad? Like they are definitely not as good as Malians/Persians and there is a bunch of other civs that are about as good like Liths or Koreans.

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They are really good. The faster building really helps, and then they have a great UU on a map with lots of stone where FC into UU is a very viable strat, so yeah, they are great for it. Getting the TC up that much faster is basically a +1 villager lead, and then the faster building also helps out with other stuff.

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