Give The Turks Pikemen

It’s just too easy to counter their trash, leaving the power units (jans, cannons etc) extremely vulnerable. Not to mention they basically have the 2 choices in build. Light cav + cav archers or light cav + jans/handcannon, even against factions with excellent counters.

The solution is very simple, give them pikes. If necessary remove blast furnace or the final infantry armour upgrade. Thots?


The Turks are designed to be very powerful when there is gold due to their gunpowder bonuses, but to be almost crippled without it. to give them even halfway decent trash upsets the balance. Besides, with supplies, they can more easily recruit champion-line infantry.


I wouldn’t mind if they could have Skirmishers, so they can benefit from Imperial Skirmishers if allied with Vietnam.


The problem is their power spike does not justify their other weaknesses. Don’t get me wrong, they have some excellent bonuses, but it is not enough to justify a complete lack of trash imo. Their winrates say as much with a <30% winrate at 20 min or less, and an overall winrate of 46% according to aoestats, putting them firmly below average.


Originally, Pikemen was the final upgrade to the anti-cav infantry line. Having only spearmen made sense because if they had pikemen they would have normal trash units… for the time. Now with halbs existing, not having any form of anti cav infantry to speak of is seriously problematic. They can have pikemen and still have far subpar, nearly useless trash units. Nearly useless, but still useful.

Camels are just not as good at countering cav as halbs. Turks should be powerful with gold, but camels don’t scream “power,” they’re a reaction to another player’s action, and therefore always leave the turks on the backfoot.


just why? I don’t see any other civ having such a suicidal ‘if’ circumstance… let alone, they aren’t even that powerful to begin with. there are much better civs that can beat them 1v1 (aztecs, franks) and aren’t extremely dependent on something unique or go bust.

Yes, pikemen would help them out alot, and cover their vulnerable power-units (jans/cannons)


The Turks appeared 1923 AD from the name of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Before that they were Seljuks and Ottomans… At their prime time, the Ottomans used many Slaves from conquered countries. Very often the slaves flee to help the other side during a battle. So the Ottomans(Seljuks, Turks) had BAD trash units.

I like the idea but still I prefer their gunpowder getting stronger(such janis,getting siege engineer,increased hp bonus for gunpowder units) or their cavalry(making sipahi giving hussar,cavalier,cavalry archer +%25 hp rather just cavalry archer +20 hp of course cost of the tech also needs to be increased as well ) rather than giving them thrash options.

That won’t change anything. They will still be dead when gold runs out. They’re a good civ as long as you have gold. They don’t need a buff in that way

I said I liked the pikemen idea but if you remove blast furnace or final armor than its pointless and probably make them weaker in my opinion.

No, it’s the other way around. Atatürk had this name because the Turkic people existed before (like the Seldjuks you mentionned)

Those slaves were the Janissaries… who aren’t trash units in game. According to this ( they did receive a salary unlike other slaves. And instead of betraying the Ottoman empire they would revolt to get higher pay/more privileges. Anyway, the only trash unit that is somewhat comparable to a slave is the Malay two-handed swordsman (Forced Levy). Trash units don’t cost gold for balance purposes anyway (I guess you could imagine skirms/spear are low rank soldiers, but it doesn’t work for light cav since horses are expensive)

Actually, most of badly armored soldiers where peasants that join the army looking for food and some rétribution to feed theirs families, so from an historically accurated vision, pikes and skirmishers should cost gold aswell

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AOM is then more historically accurate on this point 11

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I would be content with elite skirm upgrade as well

Well, that was no right becuase the trash unit they used were actual Turks while those slaves you called were generals (like Sokullu) and elite guard (called Janissary as was in the game)
To firmly coordinate and have the upper hand on evet front in the war one should feed and arm all of their soldiers equally and efficiently. Ottoman’s solution was called “Tımar”

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