-I agree on the first one.
-Villagers extra HP is already from another civ.
-Boars have more Food would be interesting, but there is already Franks (Berries) and Tatars (Sheep) and Mayans (all resources).
-I agree on the Infantry bonus applying to the Dark Age, pushing it to Imperial made no sense, I would prefer it in Castle Age, even if I have to pay for Arson.
-Cheaper Huskarls are not needed, spcially if the discount goes back to being -35% on Feudal.
-This is the Malians bonus, Malians are already âbetter Gothsâ, so I would prefer something different.
-Goths are not an Archer civ, nor would +100% accuracy replace Thumb Ring, since the best part of Thumb Ring is the increased attack rate. Huskarls already function as their counter to Archers any way, what they need is FU Hussars to counter Siege.
If it came as a free and weaker bonus, it would be different enough. Spanish need to reach Imp and have a Castle, and Supremacy also gives armor or and attack. The two closest bonuses in the game right now are Burmese (+3 attack on infnatry for free) and Aztec (+4 attack but have to pay). An HP boost for Goths would be defintely more distinct from Supremacy than these two from each other.
i dont like the approach of giving civs more and more techs to balance them out. it feels wrong and, robs them of their character plus it vioalates sometimes history too much.
The Goths have to stay a one trick poney. it is what they have always been. if the enemey survives the late game infatry flood, then you just lost fair and squarre.
my goth buff suggetion:
- Long Sword in Feudal researchable
- Two Handed Swordmens in Castle researchable
- pop bonus +10%
- villager +5 HP
i dont think this hurts the cumans uniqeness. These two infatry units are underused anyway!
Goth are fun as an ultimate infantry all in civ.
Youâre missing the part where they need an eco bonus to get to that later game play which most of your changes aim towards. Even 2 handers in Castle would be a mid to late Castle transition if that was implemented. Honestly, I would use Huskarls than go that route in Castle for pierce armor. Castle also provides defense too which Goths donât have.
If youâre suggesting the one trick pony approach, they need to get plate armor in Imperial then, or similar to Teutons and get +1/+1 starting in some age to make up for not getting it. End of the day other civs having supplies and Goths not getting it would be fair giving them the extra armor. Even the Mongols get fully upgraded Champs with supplies. Every infantry civ in game gets fully upgraded infantry blacksmith techs WITH a bonus/tech of some sort on top of it. Not Goths. Mass trash units hold up pretty well against Goth infantry late game due to no plate armor in Imperial. And one more thing⊠I still donât understand why Elite Huskarls donât get at least 1 melee armor⊠I mean seriously theyâre carrying around a shield. That one extra meele armor would help hold up a lot better against Champs.
The suggestion of improving cavalry is accurate since Goths were good at using cav too.
Speaking of robbing character, I donât think giving them a Cuman rip-off is a good idea.
Goths were known for Heavy Cavalry aswell, even in the Renaissance, they named a style of riding Platemail after them.
Thing is, there are also other villager bonuses that are far better, such as the Inca attack/armor upgrades, the Magyar 1-hit wolf kill, and even the Berbersâ faster speed, which allows them to run away faster, take fewer boar hits, as well as being a minor eco buff. Giving Goth villagers +5 hp makes them marginally better in some very limited situations (e.g. wolves pre-loom), but itâs really no substitute for loom when youâre getting raided. IMO it kind of goes in the category of ânice thought, but very weakâ bonuses like their hunting âbonus.â
Agreed. Cumans are specifically designed around having early access to some units/buildings. Goths are not, and never have been. Furthermore, early infantry upgrades do nothing to address the effect that Gothsâ lack of Supplies has in Imp.
If youâre thinking of Gothic armor,
while it was made by the Germanic peoples of the Holy Roman Empire, it wasnât âGothicâ in the historical sense so much as the artistic sense, similar to how âGothic architectureâ is a style that doesnât directly relate to the historical Gothic tribes.
I have some eco ideas that are not used by other civs
Barracks upgrades cost -50% food or something
Barracks upgrades doesnât cost gold
Free scale mail and chain mail armour
Barracks cost -75 wood
Goths towncenters give a slow income of food (similar to relics)
Some other ideas not related to eco
plate mail armour
Town centers give +5 maximum pop (5 town centers = 225 max pop)
Neither was Gothic architecture, it came way before the time of the Goths. It was still named after them, and Goths get Architecture at the University because of it.
These are good ideas, but the TC one would be highly abusable, since the Goths player would essentially have infinite population.
Barracks upgrades costing no Food or 50% food would be a great bonus, but Goths already lack 2 of those upgrades. It would still make them rush Champions, but would not address their late Imp and Feudal weakness, since Food is not so much an issue with non-Blacksmith upgrades in Feudal, and Gold is the issue in Imperial.
I donât think they were op in the first place. If you are annoyed about their weak CA. How about free longsword and pikeman upgrade?
Free Castle Age upgrades sounds boring, and does not even save that many resources.
Goths werenât underwhelming though, they didnât need major buffs.
They did, their one trick has een vastly superseeded by every other Infantry civ now, with Supplies. They actually lose at their own game.
Goths are now the worst civ in the game, by a wide margin.
I think we have to wait to see the stats work out. They were one of the best and most used before the latest update.
if this is good, how do you explain the fact that they wonât be used? even Viper agreed that Goths will need love after this.
absolutely correct. the only time they are good is if they can get to the super late game and flood. but with missing the final armor upgrade for infantry, they even lose out there.
That is because the previous patch made them broken against newer players that do not know how to handle Militia.
Now they have been overnerfed.
i think +10% would be best. +10 is a joke, especially when despite being an infantry civilization, they lack the final armor upgrade.
they need to do something for goths.
+5% does nothing in the mass majority of games. its still +10.
i agree it had to be nerfed, but they over nerfed. they didnât compensate them nearly enough. goths need an eco buff and maybe a buff to archery or stable to get them through the mid game to the point where they can flood.
good luck getting there though. how often do you actually see goths used in a tournament? oh. thatâs right, almost never. i think iâve seen one tournament usage and they were hardcountered by vikings, who despite being another infantry civ, win out in both eco and water.
there mid game is weak, so no, their feudal and castle armies are not good.
i agree, but goths do need SOMETHING to get them through the mid game, because despite your allegations that the goths have a âDecent Mid Gameâ the literal facts disagree with you.
Yeah, that stupid Viper Noob, claiming they were broken. F***ing noobs
right now as it stands, Goths is the weakest civilization in the game. hands down bar none.