Then chinese need a change to their team bonus.
It could be Farms have 50% more Food.
Chinese need no changes, they already have a 98% win rate.
Last time I checked goths on aoe stats pre de they had a win rate above 50Ă· for long games but other than that below 50 (similar to Portuguese).
I think buffing goths lategame with armor upgrades isnât they way. Their infantry is great, it doesnât need to be broken good. Would prefer to see them buffed in the early game instead.
a staggered villager hp bonus starting in dark age
5/10/15/20 to make their eco less raidabke and to go offensive with villagers early on in a drush/trush/m@a
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Well, those stats were pre supplies. I donât think theyâre still that good at imp and they were subpar, like 52-56% after 45-60min and were like <40% in feudal/castle.
Any civ now can counter the spam with regular FU champions + some other barracks, so theyâre not really that good, but the idea of stronger villagers sounds awesome
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What makes their infantry great? You do realize this is an âinfantryâ civilization, right? The Cav archer civ Mongols have fully upgraded Champions with supplies. Even Cumans too for that matter. Goth infantry get no bonuses other than creation time. (And 1 extra building attack big deal) The trade off is pretty simple at this point: Everyone gets supplies and Goths should now get the final armor upgrade for infantry in compensation. Or at least the +1/1 proposal we mentioned starting in Imperial age.I would take Japanese, Burmese, Teutons, Vikings, Slavs and Aztec infantry all over Goth infantry any day in the current state of this game. Those civs have âgreat infantry.â All those civs also have an economy bonus of some sort too. Thereâs nothing great about Goth infantry. The spam itself is very food intensive, and 99% of games played with Goths youâre going to throw a lot of units away for nothing.
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What makes their infantry great?
The creation speed. The cost reduction. The Huskarl and itâs unique effects. Just because other civs get supplies doesnât mean they get to be even in cost efficiency with the goths. There is some excessive exaggeration in this thread.
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Once a civilization researches supplies, a Goth player saves 6 food and 7 gold over another civs Champion in Imperial age. Itâs even less of a save in Feudal/Castle due to change of Goth infantry reduction. Huskarls honestly suck vs everything other than archers. A bunch of trash units can counter them effectively. Thereâs no exaggerating that. And just because you can create units faster, still doesnât make up for the fact theyâre running around with Castle age armor upgrades that canât hold up against other Infantry civs. Try playing Goths 1vs1 against an Aztec or Japanese opponent at about the same skill level and let me know how it goes for you. Been there done that.
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You must have forgotten the goths get Hand cannons. Oof.
Iâm sorry you donât like the Goths. I donât hold your position.
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Goths get Hand Cannons, yet their whole Barracks like dies to Skirmishers and Hussars combo.
Thatâs an absurd claim. Their halbardiers easily hold against skirm + hussar alone.
I was talking about how he managed to get run off the map with Infantry despite having the Hand cannon as an option. He was simply being unrealistic and exaggerating heavily because he doesnât like the goths.
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Hereâs an idea that would actually simplify things and might help them in the earlygame when they need it.
Change
- +10 population in the Imperial Age
to
- +10 population capacity.
So theyâd start the game with 15 pop cap instead of 5. It would simplify the concept and give them a neat little boost in the dark age!
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They do not, at all. Skirmishers murder Halbs in normal conditions.
Halbs without Platemail Armour stand no chance.
ânormal conditionsâ Is this that 100 v 100 thing again?
The goths outspam you. They will push through a wall of skirmishers. If you go 100% skirm hoping thatâll hold halbs, youâll be ruined the second the goths have any siege or even a handful of huskarls, if they need it, which they will likely not. Your claim, continues to be, unrealistic.
Normal conditions mean the Halbs have all their baseline upgrades.
Skirmisher (specially Elite Skirmishers) are a counter to Haberdiers. Without Platemail Armour, Halberdiers, which already do bad even when they do have it, are incredibly bad against Skirmishers.
Not only do they do very little damage to them, but are also picked off at a distance, and have to pursue the fleeing Skirms, which makes them take fire from other Skirms.
Even Goth Campions are efficiently countered by Turk Skirmishers with Bracer. Hussars counter Huskarls very effectively.
Goth Barracks is very Gold and Food intensive, because those units have very little survivability without Platemail Armour.
I donât even know what Iâm supposed to do, besides tell you you are wrong. Again.
If you test generic Halbs 30 v 30 against E skirms, Generic halbs win easily assuming no micro from either side. You can make this not the case with tons of micro, but thatâs the nature of melee vs ranged.
If you test Goth Halbs 30 v 30 against Byzantine E skirms, Goth halbs still win with no micro.
I donât know how to put this nicely. Please stop stating what you believe to be fact, as fact, because factually youâve been incorrect on every unit matchup youâve opined on that Iâve seen.
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You are just wrong. Skirmishers are the counter to Spearman line units. Halberdiers lose against Elite Skirmishers.
Your test was either very poor, or you are lying.
Even the game tells you to counter Halberdiers with Skirmishers.
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Thats absurd, youâre talking about units that do 3 damage with a reload rate of 3, unless the champions are outnumbered by a lot, its impossible.
Is this without any range distance between the army? because I find that hard to believe
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You can absolutely get the halbs to lose. Simply donât have them patrol in at all, let them walk in, stop, then find a target, or control the skirms and micro them to death, those both work. The idea that the skirms, en masse, by virtue of existing, will handle the Halbs, is flatly untrue. Skirms counter Halbs by virtue of having distance between themselves and the Halbs. You can only give yourself so much distance before youâre in your own base.
@JoJo9942 5 tile distance to start, skirms are on no AI, Halbs are patrolled in. No further micro besides telling the halbs to all engage initially. Go ahead and try it.
Worth noting that at max range, the skirms win, but if your idea is that you are going to always âstartâ an engagement against a flood at max range you might not have the right idea of what a âfloodâ is. And in the scenario where you arenât facing a âfloodâ (A.K.A. not the goths) you can take 30 e skirms with 30 halbs at max range, easily. Like, 40% units remaining easily. Thatâs the power of 4 pierce armor against a unit with 7 total attack.
Not at all. generic FU Champions take 1 damage from Elite Skirmishers, while Goths take 3. Since Champions cost Gold, this is a very poor trade for Goths.
Funny enough, Portuguese with Supplies and Gold discount + Platemail Armour, have a better Champ Push than Goth could ever hope to achieve.
FU Champions end up having 5 Pierce Armour (1 natural +4 from upgrades), while FU Elite Skirms end up having 6 damage (3 natural +3 from upgrades).
6-5=1
This is easy to check even on the Wiki.
By the way, your scenario makes Goth Champions look even worse, which definitely would be basis for a large buff.