Goth Hotfix Before Hidden Cup 3

As the official patch hit last month towards the end of the month … if the patch hit that late this month it would hit after Hidden Cup 3 starts.

It’s true that Hidden Cup 3 could be played on the old patch.

But the new patch is great and more stable. A future patch is yet to be tested. However, one problem: Goths. Goths will be overpowered, according to most pros, if they keep their current buff and take that into Hidden Cup 3.

Can we have a quick balance-related Hotfix to fix the Goths before Hidden Cup 3 starts?

Many people want that bonus removed entirely. Personally, after much thought and debate, I think to change the Goth bonus to -20% in Dark age -25% in Feudal age -30% in Castle age and -35% in Imperial age would be good.

Hidden Cup 3 is sponsored by microsoft and has an over $50,000 prize pool. It starts on March 19th and it would be a real shame if it (a) Had to be played on an old patch (b) Was played on a brand new patch that might have introduced bugs as it would be an untested patch © Was played on the current patch with the Goths’ imbalance. I thnk (d) Play it on the current patch + with a quick emergency civ balance hotfix for the Goths would be the correct option.


Yeah, I agree. Goth bonus should be either change or remove. Make it a 20 cheaper in dark age. Or maybe make their boars/deers have 50% more food. But it has to be change to be part of HC3 (when does it start?)

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I heard they are alreasy using another patch. Dunno what are the changes tho.

No. According to most pros goths are just annoying to play against, but they are not OP.


Disagree with staggering the infantry price percentages per age. It was 35 percent starting Feudal before, so revert it back to what it was. I only see one pro saying this Is over powered and that’s Viper. I can care less about this Hidden Cup Tourney. I’m not in it and the fact Microsoft is affiliated with it makes me not care.

My suggestion: 10 percent population total increase in Imperial , or give them the final plate armor upgrade for infantry to compensate not getting supplies. As for an eco bonus, something with boar hunters working faster or start with more vills in conjunction with the 10 percent total increase I said earlier.

This sums it up well. It’s annoying because you need to be walled early on, but its kinda expectable if you face goths. Keep in mind each player can only pick goths once per set and even with their militia you dont want to face eg. aztec on arabia.

Btw Larry won today with japanese archer/scouts vs Vipers full militia strat on seize the hump, one of the most open and unwallable maps. Goth not that broken, eh?


Just revert it back to start from feudal age. Rather make them like before than make them have a very new potential op civ bonus (after changing it to 20% or whatever, imo it still might be op). The goths will need buffs, yes, but not now because hidden cup starts very soon. Best option is to revert the change before HC3 and give them an economy buff or somethig other after the tournament.

How does anyone think this is anything but a major nerf that makes Goths worse than they were before the buff? A 20% discount in Dark is decent, but it in no way makes up for making the Goths weaker in Feudal and Castle, where they were already not great. You’re suggesting that in exchange for saving 16 resources each on a few militia in Dark Age, Goths shouldn’t get their full (previously Feudal) discount until Imperial Age? If it’s staggered at all, it should be more like 25/30/35/40.

I mean, heaven forbid that a civ known exclusively for its infantry should, ya know, be good with infantry.

Source? We all know Viper has voiced that opinion (although he later tweeted that he didn’t think Goths were broken because of it), but I haven’t heard of any other pros saying so.


Just revert the Goths change. Please no bonus on Dark Age. If you want to buff Goths give an eco bonus instead.

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Honestly they’re not that broken. The problem is that people don’t know how to respond to them yet. They try to treat it like a normal drush and get squished.

But if you know you’re facing the goths, and that they can push you too hard to win a straight fight, you just wall and maybe build a defensive tower, and they’re completely shut down and behind.

Personally, I like it. The early game is too standardized most of the time. This changes it up, at least a little bit.


Bruh Goths got +1 extra attack on buildings. Dark Age buildings got less HP. It’ll melt them down so fast.

Walls, not buildings. People assume they can deal with a goth drush the same way they deal with a drush from any civ, house in their vills, and proceed to get obliterated.

Instead they need to scout the incoming militia, and build palisades to stop them further out. Once the palisades are up, they’ve got absolutely no way to hurt you.


They just globally banned goths in HC3. That’s how broken they are. There’s is not real way to deal with them. Even if you wall at minutez that’s affect your eco, and reality is goth player would keep spaming militia until the the point not a single wall would be enough. Even if tou manage to get archers, you will have like 30 militias in your base

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I wouldn’t say that’s the case; we’ve already started to see pro games where the Goth rush is countered. I think the global ban has less to do with the Goths being “OP” and more to do with the fact that players haven’t had time to try out/adjust to major transformative balance changes that came out just before a tournament. The changes to Mongols, by contrast, don’t change the meta much, and the Vietnamese eco buff, while strong, also doesn’t necessarily change the way people will play them, it just makes them better at what they were already able to do. The Goth rush has been catching unprepared players off guard, so I can understand a global ban until people have their counter builds locked down.


That’s just silly. At that point they’re spamming food and gold into your 2 wood palisades, you should be able to win without difficulty.

I like your stagger proposal better than the OPs by far. Makes more sense. And everything you said in general with this topic is spot on.

Source? Any post anywhere on aoezone or discord?

T90 said that Players agree on that because they were to op.

He just said it on the stream of mbl vs nicov, 3rd or 4th game, mbl was goths

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Wasn’t Mbl among those who still thinks Goths are bottom tier?

The feudal and castle age aren’t ages where Goths can usefully spam infantry anyhow. So it would definitely be more of a buff than a nerf.

But on non-open maps it would be a small nerf as drushes would be useless then anyway. And they’re an already weak civ.

I originally wanted -20% for dark age and -35% for feudal age + but I had complaints that that wasn’t staggered enough.