Goths Buff/Balance

I suggest to give them the last stable armor upgrade while also removing the hussar upgrade to buff their cavaliers to help against physical fights when quality is more preferred.

And give them thumb ring for their skirmishers if possible. Yes that would also help their cav archers but it’s not like they have parthian tactics either. It’s moreso to increase their anti-archer capability against quicker foes like the mangudai that the huskarl will have trouble reaching.

Ok, I really don’t know where to start…

  • First, skirms don’t need tumb ring, they are the least affected unit by it, both for the accuracy (from 90% to 100%) and for their fire rate (that is unaffected by it).
    So, giving them TR wouldn’t buff them at all, it would just buff their CA.

  • Second, how are you playing the goth? Why using skirms at all to counter archers when you have huskarls?
    And huskarls don’t counter mangudai? They deal 2 damage to them, you can’t micro them, while huskarls are cheap and spammable as hell, and deal 10 bonus damage to archers. You’ll get pushed and pushed until your castle and huskarls will destroy both mangudais and castles.
    If mongols wins, they do it because they can kill them with early aggressions.

  • As for the cavalry armor, sure whatever… I onestly don’t see why goth should prefer quality over quantity in any case…
    I mean, FU cavaliers are nice for some knight aggression in castle age, but other than that goth infantry onslaught should be the answer to everything…


weird suggestions. Its a very small buff to their raiding (fu lcav>hussar without armor), and nothing else will change. I dont think i ever saw goth skirms (past feudal) or chevalier.

I personally wouldn’t touch goths anymore. 2020 has given us a lot of trouble, but at learnt some things as a society. For one, buffing goths is dangerous.

Mangudai and similar units such as the kipchak are hard on huskarls in particular because of their speed, the huskarls would tend to be stuck chasing and never quite catching - siege isn’t the answer either so that leaves skirmishers or ally support. I disagree that mangudai can’t be microed, they do it often enough in late imp

on the other hand it takes a heck of a lot of kiting for those mangudai to kill huskarls, which are dirt cheap and easy to mass up. and if your opponent is kiting huskarls with his mangudai, he isn’t going to be able to defend effectively.

Arguably for mongols specifically, they have plenty of physical answers towards the goths so it wouldn’t just be kiting, they’d be able to answer on a few fronts while the kiting serves as a long term distraction and danger the goths have no choice but to answer to in most cases.

Their best answer to goths is defending with champs while spamming hussars into their eco. You might need to keep a group of mangudai alive but not really to handly the halb/huscarl spam but to force huscarl instead of champs from the goth player.

Champs and cavaliers and monks,
The monks negate the effect of the flood by retaining resource value in the long term

Hard nope. Cav dies to halbs. And please stop bringing in monks into everything or at least give some prove of late imp monks having any relevance. You cant micro monks when 80 goth units are flooding you.

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13 champs surround 5-10 monks well enough while outer champs counter halbs and cavaliers assist with everything else and mangudai kite often.

Micro not included nor needed in some cases for the monks, they need only be there and wary of ranged counters. Taking a few huskarls for your army along the way if wanted.

13 champs and 10 monks are not going to stop a goth flood, sorry.

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That’s what the outer units are for
The champs just defend the monks from anything that fits through the cracks of the total army while the monks assist in keeping everyone healed.

those champs aren’t going to keep the monks alive either. you’re better off investing that 500-1000 gold into further military units.

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The cavaliers will be taking the brunt of the force, and they should be healed often to cover the expense while extra spam of champs will counter the halbs and assist against the rest of the flood.

As Mongols I may even stop mangudais if the goth spam begins. At this point actually my opponent may deserve the win, since he survived with a weak civ up to late castle (at least).

Said that, Mongols may just go hussars+arbs vs goths. Halabs take down easily everything but husklarl, which dies in 1v1 vs a Mongols hussar (husklarls should be FU hussars but not Mongol ones, right?)

the cavaliers will be shredded by halbs.

they will get shredded faster then you can heal them.

Hit and run tactics go a long way

with cavaliers into halbs? mongol cavalier at that which lack the final armor upgrade?
they take 38 damage an attack from a single halb.

also an army consisting of cavalier + monks + champs? expensive.

if you’re ideas are so awesome, how come you’re not a pro beating daut and company?

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Well lets be fair, no one can beat the Lord. Sometimes, he decides to lose to test our faith.

Ofc a healing fortress would beat most pro players, its obv a great strategy and will be the meta in a few years. Just after they figured out that walls are useless and villagers are overrated.

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Going to have to backtrack, was under the impression that they had the full armor upgrade on their cavaliers and didn’t verify it.

That being said they would still spam champs and if they did use cavaliers it would be only against melee units besides the spears while the champions counter the spears as they appear even if they did have that last armor upgrade.