Hand cannoneers and Bombard Cannons replacement

Hello everyone!

I know AoE #1 goal isn’t historical accuracy, but a thing always bothered me and it’s the gunpowder units given to civs that were long gone before the gunpowder was even employed on the fields (China aside).

Now I know that balance exists, but we already have a working replacement unit just for 1 civ (Incas), so why not reskin the Slinger and give it to civs like Goths, Dravidians, Gurjaras, Khmer and those civs that never reached the gunpowder era, but still need a “HC unit” for balance purposes?
Same goes for Bombard Cannon, it might be created another siege unit (like traction trebuchet) with slight variations like less dmg but more splash, less or more armor and similar cost (like 250W 200G or the opposite) to fill the same role for civs that need such a unit, but never reached the gunpowder stage.

I know such change is not really useful for gameplay purposes, but devs made a lot of effort to create gunpowder-less meso civs and then gave hc and cannons to civs like goths. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

This is merely a “fantasy” discussion because such things will never be implemented, but what do you think?


I don’t think a traction trebuchet would be more historically accurate for those civs, and certainly not for Goths :sweat_smile: Also I’m pretty sure the time frame for Dravidians and Gurjaras is large enough that GP is legit for them.
No opinion for slingers, idk if they were a big thing for Asian civs.


Dravidians encompasses more than Chola I guess it can cover Vijayanagar too. So they can have Gunpowder. Gurjaras too as Rajputs were pretty autonomous kingdoms throughout history even after their peak and in existence till recent times. Khmer were also around till 15 century as an empire. After that i think Khmer people were there just not an empire.

Goths were definitely gone.

I admit I would be fine with keeping Bombard cannons because traction trebuchet seems also redundant being simply an earlier version of more powerful counterweight trebuchet, it was just a placeholder idea to provide a replacement unit for cannons.
To be fair a lot of units don’t fit to a lot of civs, like Cavaliers for some east asian civs or Arbalesters for Vikings and meso civs, for example, but imho the gunpowder units are on a different level because they’re really recent compared to the medieval period, so recent that some civs were already gone by that time.
Anyway as I said this is just a philosophical thread almost.
Another reason I started this thread is the Slinger, which is imho a really cool and nice unit replacement for HC, but imho used so few times because Incas have also solid infantry, FU arbalesters and a very versatile melee UU, if it was a unit shared with other civs I thought it might have been more used.

You completely missed everybody having petards.


You’re right, maybe because I never use them, I also missed demo ships, fire ships and cannon galleons on purpose, too radical change otherwise, plus water maps are rarely played.

Meso civis already dont have demo and cannon ship lines but still balanced.fire ships have nothing to do with gunpowder,even aoe has fire ships.

I do believe that regional units are overall a good idea and a positive change to the game, so whatever it is, it works!


Meso civs do have Demo ships, mayans even heavy demo


The idea behind the game is that you can lead the civs into the gunpowder era in the Imperial Age. Whether or not they made it there in reality is irrelevant. The original concept for Age of Kings was that all the civs were around at the Fall of Rome and evolved into medieval nations - that’s why we have Britons, Goths, Teutons, etc. instead of proper medieval nations. By the Imperial Age, the Goths don’t still represent the barbarian Visigoths and Ostrogoths - they’re intended to represent the European nations the Goths evolved into (though civs like the Spanish and Italians were later also added separately and the concept has become very thematically confused).


Goths did not die out with the medieval era they were active in crimea.


completely agree! it’s so odd to see goths rocking hand cannoneers and BBC…i would love a fitting replacement like inca’s slinger. a unit to replace hand cannoner could be a “heavy crossbow” dude, which has the same stats as a cannoner and fire slower than regular crossbow because it’s harder to reload and less accurate because it’s heavier.

replacement for BBC could be a “ballista” similar to a scorpion but throws a sphere-shaped projectile, that could damage building at long range like a BBC and can snipe other siege like BBC.

all in all, everything would remain the same balance wise, it would merely be a reskin

petards could be reskinned into “sappers” that dig under a building so they disappear with an appropriate animation and damage the building

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That will look odd when used against none buildings.

I agree a lot to your idea. Whether or not the civ actually achieved those techs in reality is now irrelevant. You have the option to change the course - kind of - what could have been… It’s a game and that’s ok and maybe required.
Great point!!

The with that Logic you could justify anything and like give knight to meso civs because yeah whatever, but they didn’t, they respected the historical accuracy to an extent. So the point of the OP is totally legit to me, since for me seeing goth with BBC is as odd as mayans with BBC, so i’m all for a change that implies only visual skin and no ripercussion on balance

Petards are close to a non factor when no one ever uses them, let alone against units…but still, i Guess It would not be difficult to implement a unit that has the same function, or they could simply forget about it. After all, meso civs have demolition ships already

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Crimean goths tho! they lasted till the 18th century