No, but they were actually trained to avoid hitting something but the target, whilst hand cannons were just to inaccurate to be used in a comparable role.
I just say, because the true roles can’t be reflected accurate in the game, ther acually are these damage bonusses which can be chosen to reflect these roles. So whilst HC couldn’t be used effective against xbows or cavalry in the backlines, xbows could hit almost everything (except artillery). Because of battle formations like pike+shot cavalry was the unit of choice against hc but also vulnerable to it, so no advantage to one of them. Pure Infantry though was viped out by these formations, that’s why there should be a big bonus against Infantry to hc. So I would give hc just a higher bonus against infantry.
The thing is just, that infantry isn’t correctly represented in the game. Infantry need to be more pop efficient. There are just a few civs wich are able to dish out viable infantry atm and way to many counters. Archers, Scorpions, (Onagers), Elefants, HC. Many UU. Many of those don’t even receive a dmg bonus against them. The only Infantry unit you see often is spear-line. Just because they are effective against cavalry and often the only viable counter against it.
Infantry in general should receive some love. Supplies actually doesn’t change it much because it doesn’t make it pop efficient, which is the biggest issue of infantry atm.
once more: gunpowder <> hc / firearms
We don’t talk about mortars here.
I know, they are missing in the game, but i think the mangonel is just the replacement for them.
Yeah listen, it’s not like all archers can miraculously target only enemies soldiers, nor they were trained for it, friendly fire was a thing way before gunpowder, so let’s not fantasize.
Historical accuracy isn’t a bit thing in aoe, the sooner you get to over it, the better you would enjoy the game.
The problem is that such big changes are unlikely to happen, so it’s better to focus on some tweaks here and there.
but these are the only type of gunpwder which could be used in a almost comparable role like crossbows + arbalests.
If you don’t talk about them, you have actually no clue about the use of gunpowder at this time.
The thing is also, I can’t see a different role for hc than being a better counter to infantry than arbs. Arbs are a so versatile unit in the game, you can’t add a unit which is just better than arbs. Or even comparable strong with less effort to tech into.
That’s also the point for balancing.
Well but most of the people here agree to make the HC a better arbs that counter only infantry, it’s just that that we disagree on how to achieve that.
Personally, I think that there 2 options that could solve the problem (both together or separately):
reduce the TT and cost of the HC
Increase its bonus damage vs infantry (like SotL said)
Actually that’s what i’m saying, increase the bonus damage.
You still stick to my theoretical, nerd-like, a bit sarcastic “real” hc suggestion i just once announced.
No, i said several times best way would be the bonus-dmg increase that they can kill halbs just with 2 hits instead of 3.
But i still think if this happens, the cav+hc combo might be a bit too strong if they don’t fix late-game infantry.
I think before pike and shot the very ealry gunpowder stuff was still so knew and dangerous than only a handful of experts knew how to use it. These engineer/alchemist , which often came from the holy roman empire in the western world, were rare.
Reducing train time and cost would fit for the renaissance maybe when you just needed to train how to reload and shot.
I would rather increase hp by 10 so it is 5 more than arbs to illustrate that they were protected experts.
Then ballistics and bullets speed but keep the low accuracy at is. Same for janissary and conqs,they could hit stuff better pre de somehow.
Experimentially, remove all the bonus damage and instead give it leitis ignore pierce armor (expect for buildings and siege workshop units and trebs).
Its new role is anti heavy armor since bullets pier thorough. Unit will be sligly worse against Infatry, and better against cavalry and skimisher. All in all less specialised thought and more useful.
He means I think that even in teamgames it is preferable to use your own paladins to fight enemy paladins because there will also be other units on the field which your camels wourl perform abysmal against.
HC are already overly specialised and niche. Instead of pushing them further into that corner, a general combat buff (HP, bullet speed, ballistic) would help much morem
They’d be a gold-intensive pure counter unit. They couldn’t be buffed too much because of certain matchups (eg vs goths), but they’d be really easy to counter.
Basically I don’t find Camels fun in their current state. Neither to use, nor to play against. Usually they’re not good enough, sometimes they are too good. If HC get buffed against infantry specifically, I think they’ll become the same.
Indians are a camel civ… and it sucks.
(I don’t mean they’re necessarily too weak, just un-fun.)
Portuguese are a gunpowder civ… and it doesn’t need to suck.
Currently it’s hardly relevant that they have a gunpowder buff because Port arbs > Port HC, but if Port HC get buffed and you can avoid the whole port advantage by avoiding infantry… it doesn’t sound fun.
Any kind of general combat buff could work, these too.
A cost reduction could put Italians in a slightly weird position, with extra-spammable HC, but then again it might work out well.
Well, they would have the cheapest HC, but actually their bonus would be less strong, since the discount would be smaller, and the unit in general would be more affordable for all other civs too.
Technically a cost reduction is a sort of nerf for Italians since their discount would affect a cheaper unit… I guess…
20% discount
If everyone pays 10 and you 8, you have an advantage of 2.
If everyone pays 5 and you 4, your advantage is 1.
So Italians would not have a great advantage, they would have less advantage actually… In the extreme theoretical case where a unit is free, the discount is useless.
But ofc Italians need a substantial buff regardless on what you do to gunpowder
