he is a pro and he told you he did this in many occasions 11
Iâm not sure, if I am misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me 
I said in high level games, it is more likely that there arenât enough ressources to go Arbalesters, so HCs are more likely. I donât think Nicov disagreed with this anywhere in this threadâŠ
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Come on, no one is going to make xbows as Teuton just to counter pikes.
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Specially when their own Halbs win every Halb vs Halb fight.
Youâre taking my words a little bit out of context, arenât you ;-)? Of course you donât tech into Crossbows, if you donât get Arbalesters, because they donât have long-term potential (except PersiansââŠ). But if you do tech into Arbalesters, you have some useful units out earlier than if you teched into Hand Cannoneers.
Sorry if it felt like that, but the point is that some civ have HC but not arbs, and for them there canât be a competition between the two units. Might not be the core argument of the whole debate but I felt like people forgot about it.
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Decreasing (effective) Frame Delay and Reload Time could be a reasonable buff to Hand Cannoneers.
Here on how Frame Delay works:
(effective) Frame Delay
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In the past I wanted to increase their accuracy by 5% or remove archer class from Hand Cannoneers (so skirmishers donât shred through HC in 1v1) but it takes away from the identity of the unit and as well would prolly make them too hard to be countered for certain civs (without arbalests and siege). It would prolly still be fine. Just probably.
At the same time I disagree with giving them HP boost. Despite high attack HC should be hard countered by Onagers.
Another buff you could consider is making them walk faster (so itâs easier to micro away from infantry) by a tech like squires but for HC or by default. The current speed of HC is the same as of an archer which is 0.96. The issue with that is that they would become slightly better against cavalry at the same time (especially Teutonsâ cavalry). Again would prolly be fine. Just probably.
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well arenât they already? Outranged by 1 or even 2 after siege engineers, even with +15HP suggestions theyâll still die to onagers, the Turk ones are of concern though
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exactly lol
The +15 HP is for them to be actually better vs all Infantry than the current Arbalesters in practice, while not being so so squishy vs Skirms and Light Cav, considering their cost.
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I also agree about hand cannons needing âsomethingâ because they do feel a bit underwhelming currently. I have a slightly more unorthodox proposal which may or may not even be possible to code, but what if they made it so that HCs damage would increase the closer their targets were to them. It kinda makes sense considering getting shot by firearms is generally more devastating at close range and it kinda synergises well with with their accuracy incraesing at close range and the fact that they are supposed to be infantry killers who would be killed much quicker if they dared walk up to them. What do people think?
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It is possible to code, but it would do nothing to make them more viable. General rule with Ranged units, is that you want the enemy as far away from them as you can get them, because they all die very quickly when the distance is closed, no matter how much damage they do (unless they do an inordinately OP amount of damage).
Well then let them do an inordinately OP amount of damage at close range. That could be their niche. And historically and logically accurate too. After all the introduction of firearms is what changed battle field tacticts in the Medieval world and made charging tightly grouped cannoneers deadly. Firearms literally made the cavalry charge an obsolete tactic. This would also set them apart from the other ranged units like archers and give them a character. They still wouldnât be ridiculously OP, because they still cost a lot, are only a late game unit, and will still die easily to skirms and siege.
They would need to be able to 2-shot a Paladin, which would be recieved with cries of âNERF! HC OP!â.
Increase HC damage by +3 then reduce their bonus vs Infantry a bit. This will make them a better unit overall instead of just anti-infantry.
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A good idea too , although itâs thier big cost and terrible squishiness(HP) that could be fixed first, without anyone complaining âOPOPâ
Increasing thier attack power is actually faaar more realistic.
hand cannons in use
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We all know FU Arbs are objectively better though (except vs the very special cases of enemy Elite Huskarls, Malian FU Champs or Elite Eagles)
iâd take hand cannons vs TK, Eagles, and iâm sure their is some other unit iâm forgetting too.
Arbs are the better allrounder unit (which they are supposed to be).
Hand Cannons are good if the enemy needs to run at you, especially if it is infantry - and in that particular scenario they are actually better. So they have their spot - and theyâre not supposed to be just another allrounder unit with a different weapon.