Haude not fun Versus Malta Even Before Respective Buffs/Nerfs

Can’t play Haude versus Malta it seems.
I knew they were going to become REALLY good after the patch, but damn… When your elite unit is just shredded by a Ueber-buffed archaic. I can’t do it… You’re going against an Archaic Civ in early & late game and it doesn’t work any way. I’m just going 100% Toma rush with town destroyer and just let the chips fall where they may.

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Nothing is fun vs malta - definitely imagine it being even worse for haudenosaunee

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My best advice is since malta loves to base sit just FI
By the time they hit age3 you can be close to age4 and then just right click them with tomos and light cannons. Add 8 gendarme to finish it
I dunno if it’s fun but tends to work vs non bow enjoyer types of malta players

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Literally just rush or FF. If you don’t win with either of these you’re merely getting outplayed. Taking out buildings while forcing them into TC is a lot more effective than you think.

I don’t think rushing works that well vs malta, just build a depot next to your tc and ship 2 towers and that shuts it down unless they want to sacrifice so many units. What does work vs malta is containing them in base like russia do rather than an all in haud style rush.

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thats been my experience, hell ive actually ram’d FF with 4 chadlets and rams backed by FP/KH into people because haude’s seige is low enough and unless malta is rushing, they take time so you can naked ff or FI
rushing defensive malta only works on low hunt maps imho where starving them is more viable

edit- really???
ram
ranch
is a friggin issue??? censor?

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Tbf Hauda has a positive winrate I believe vs Malta.

i mean its the least played matchup, or close to it
iirc malta haude is the least played with like all time 150 across all elos, or 2nd most. maybe it was ethopia malta. per a patch its played like 20 times or something super low let me check

i spoke a bit too soon but its small
on all time patch its

166
181 (malta favored)

this patch

7
9 (also malta favored)

Not exactly data id consider conclusive tho

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Yeah I play malta and not really any haud but I don’t have a problem defending from the typical rush I know is coming. If I do stop it then I can just hit fortress and ship a fixed gun and now haud is on the back foot and won’t have res to easily FI after doing the rush.

If I were haud I’d play agressive, ideally with a dock start but not go all in just try and idle and kill vills and keep map control, you can also go stagecoach to stay up on eco while malta is locked in base.
FI can work but it is quite easily scouted and you are up against potentially high hp/RG culvs and heavy fixed guns with a poor eco and not much follow up after shipping your 4 light cannons and 2 from age up.

Taking map is always important for haude
While haude doesn’t have the ez mode FIs of most civs, you can get up by 9 min and if malta went sent huss slow boom their seige is bad and LCs should beat culvs with micro.

But yes you cant bot it hence the “vs passive malta” where you feel like you can get the 42 champion tomo 6+ LCs by 10 11 minutes. If malta pushes out with a mass around 8 minutes your hosed. Like most things haude, scouting and choosing the right timing is key

Usually a stagecoach semi, water play or FF works ok vs malta ive found but vs the new uber turtly stuff going 4 seems to work well enough for me. Might just be suprise since almost everyone forgets this is a thing haude can do

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Hmm, I just looked at the ffp civ grid earlier. I must have read it wrong.

Tbh if civ grid or Ffp is a bit outdated, given the low playrates of these civs could have flipped easily. Small numbers means high variance.

Also i think when they migrated their server some old data got lost so their all time i think is a few patches of data. Someone please correct me if im wrong

Super Important Points - I have only recently come to know that your units have this weird Line of Sight Attack Move situation where your individual units need line of sight to fire at an enemy when you attack move with them. Wasn’t HUGE in my cases, but definitely adds up in a game. This FACT needs 10 Asterisks around it & to be put up for newer players to easily see.

But essentially after coming away from 1 really long game, then 1 where they just have eco boom & defence at the same time somehow. I was feeling disheartened & annoyed at the General way to play them hadn’t worked once against them. So needed more thoughts to figure out if an F.I. would seem to be the most productive, 6 Light Cannons & Tomahawks to defend against Order Hussars and so on.
The problem I had those games were that I was hit in both games by just crossbow + pike early enough with even sentinels annihilating Aenna like Janissaries do (best musk civs versus one of the worst ones & they beat your age II skirms) & although I rebounded fairly well. They just have non-stop bonuses going into every part of their gameplay.

  • The biggest gripe I have is that your supposedly fantastic Forest Prowlers only become good later into the game when you dance for their damage to increase - yet by then they’ve outpaced you with all of their free stuff. Against Xbow in Age III they’re just a resource balance unit effectively since they & musket riders are your only major Coin-Sinks in Age III… what do you do against falconets or their unique cannon battery building?
    Mantlets are still a 50% ranged reduction so going for them could be okay with tomahawks, but they’re so slow & hard to manage against a MASS of bow + pike when they just shoot from further range & then get time for falconets to come out - where the mantlets are infantry so falconets shred them like organs & so many others).

But these two specific games were land maps - otherwise I’m getting good with their fish booms. I genuinely wonder if maybe going for the early push despite not being a major early push-enjoyer would be best… Taking out the early commandery to just slow their settler wagon growth (I know it only reaches 6 max), but it also counts for Wignacourt too & the dreaded order hussars. And just take any good fight or go for any good pickoff that I can to slow them down. I’m just not PRISING the Age III of Haude in quite a few matchups…

But thanks for all of the replies, I definitely am trying to take in how to play them regularly (alongside BASE Gameplay quirks such as the one I mentioned at the start) - alongside how to adapt them to handle D.E. things (e.g. Bison mentioned on Disc about skirms beating Baja California generally - Aenna + unit shipments should work with their 12 siege damage which I think is the highest for an Age II archer/skirm (particularly one that doesn’t cost wood or coin)!