Title. Nothing more to add.
4 Likes
no, not realy. even If you dont get it the first time its easy to understand. what ship will bei Upgrade. and when you are a noob or Low elo it is a Button you click it and something will happen.
the secound Page ist easy to overlook and to forgot. so the unit / tech will not bei used at all
2 Likes
I mean take a moment to read the tech tree see the x on the ships there pretty simple
2 Likes
I was just too used to the old dock.
And that is tiresome.
- Move some naval techs from University to Blacksmith and Castle
- Make land units and warships move slower in shallow waters
- Change the Hulk’s attack animation from throwing hooks into ramming like in Chronicles
- Allow Fishing Ships to repair ships
- Allow Fishing Ships to build Sea Towers
- Split individual ship upgrades again and either enlarge the UI in order to fit them or move them to the Sea Tower
- Allow Sea Towers to train monkships (“Corsair Ship”?) that throw hooks to convert but are very low HP so you need a lot of them to convert enemy vessels
- Allow Villagers to build Sea Walls and Sea Gates in shallow waters
Oh no!! I have to loose a few second every Game looking at the tree, how hard
Also: You don’t even have to open the tree, just holding the cursor over the shield gives you a summary
We have literally been studying tech trees for civs since there were only 13. This is literally nothing that can even pretend to be new
Blacksmith sure. Especially the fire ones as long as they fall outside the Spanish and Bulgarian discount bonuses.
Castle not so much that is an expensive way to keep your naval flow going and there isn’t actually any tech room there which is why 3fake heroes REPLACE trebuchet
To me it’s not even the issue of readability or not, it’s just that I don’t get what is the purpose other than trying to cram everything in one page at the expense of gameplay. The issue with water was that it was just about massing as many ships as possible, this just double in that direction. There’s no tactical decision involved if you can upgrade everything in one single tech. Maybe I’m failing to see something because it seems too pointless to be true.
6 Likes
I know. I liked previous warship upgrades better as in the Imperial ships were individually upgraded and if a civ doesn’t have the Imperial Upgrade, you can just see it when you click the Dock.
This water rework is absolutely new.
3 Likes
so? what’s the issue then?
People have weird issues with the game that are easily solved. JUST look at the tree, it is not that difficult, it doesn’t take long. Looking for your dock can be even slower than hovering over the shield.
Opening the second page of the dock, and having the castle age tech shared, and the imperial age tech divided was even more confusing for the people apparently.
It would cause balancing issues. Galleys require Ballistics, which is behind the University’s paywall.
Judging by a few matches on TG Nomad at various levels, the players haven’t quite come to terms with all the changes yet. I see players who still aren’t doing Forging, or the additional technologies at the University.
Let’s say, for example, that your opponent is playing War Galley. In that case, they’ve probably invested in Fletching, Bodkin Arrow and Ballistics. The idea is that even if you have Fire Ships ready to go, they still won’t be enough. That’s why Siphons and Careening are the techs at the University you should look into.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, as time goes on, these additional naval technologies become even more powerful.
I really dislike the current dock setup and the “Heavy Warship” upgrade often not upgrading all units is just one of them. This is a different behaviour then any other upgrade in AoE2. Bracer doesn’t randomly not affect Cavalry Archers or something like that.
The Dock should really just be split into 2 buildings. That would solve this any many other problems.
Also the counter triangle should be inverted because the current one makes no sense at all. How does heavy armour help against fire but not against arrows???
3 Likes
Does It even fit in the villager build menu counting unique building? Also probably too much busywork updating and rebalancing every single water scenario in the campaigns
At least It is more consistent now, before you had war galley for every ship in Castle and then individual ones in Imperial
Counters will never make sense, because naval combat doesn’t make sense in the first place. Starting with fire ship not being used by 99% of the civs historically
I want to increase the UI by one column anyway. AoE1/3/AoM all have 1 more column, it’s just AoE2 that has less for some reason.
Easy solution:
Don’t remove the old “Dock”. Keep it in the game files. Make the 1 page equal to to the civil “Port” and the 2nd page equal to the military “Shipyard”.
Of course it’ would still be good to rework the scenarios but this way there is a fallback.
All should logically be individual like every other unit in the game. Just make them very cheap and fast to research.
Yeah in a perfect world the Fireship would be a regional unit. But reversing the counter triangle would be a lot more logical.
I still think there should be additional ships like a Onager Ship that is good against large piles of Galleys but weak against everything else.
1 Like
Mostly to keep consistent with the left side of the keyboard for hotkeys i guess, they could remove the gather point icon at least (does anyone actually use the button instead of right click?)
Seems like a lot of tech debt that would be more trouble than it is worth, keeping legacy building with overlap. Either you rework it completely or don’t. The current system is the best middle point the could have come up with. It’s not like water is so popular to justify having separate upgrades for each ship (blame original game developers for that)
Not really? The galley weakness is close range, so it should be weak to both (not a triangle), it is an archer so it makes sense, that was the problem when they first tested the hulk (and they artificially forced it later), the problematic thing is the existance of nonsensical fire and demolition ships. Real water combat is very difficult to emulate and no RTS is usually capable of doing it right.
It is funny that the Byzantines have a regional ship that is kinda like an onager instead of the fire ship that was actually only theirs.
It would just add 3 more keys on the right, which exist on every keyboard. And as I said it works perfectly in all other games in the Series.
It kinda already is like that because the Chronicles split the building without overwriting the old dock.
Archers are strong against Infantry, right? So the comparison makes limited sense.
My logic:
- Hulk: Heavily armoured → Doesn’t take much damage from pierce and melee attacks
- Fire Ship: Shoots fire which should ignore armour and therefor be good against Hulks. Also Fireships are full of fragile flammable things so they should take more damage from Arrows then the heavily armoured Hulks.
The Dromon is pretty weak against ships though. I thought about an actual lower range Onager ship that is bad against buildings but good against bunched up ships. Kinda like Demoships but not just one time use.
1 Like
I think they perhaps wanted to stick to the principle that fireships counter galleys
Not really comparable and completely independent of main game balance, and more ships. They are two parallel systems, not a legacy one like you proposed.
Next column contains the “H” key, which would overwrite the standard TC key and probably cause more trouble.
Yeah, by logic Fire ship good against everything, Galley weak against anything and Hulk useless unless you have its last upgrade instead of fire ships’s one. Not really a triangle if we involved logic
yeah that is most likely the reason. But it sure if confusing.
It was a trial run for the base game. They added the Trireme Line as the Hulk Line but not the Onager Ship Line.
Not an impossible issue to solve. Especially for people that regularly play the other games in the series.
No they are fragile and therefor die to arrows. So they are similar to Demoships. Only good when they manage to reach their target. They would be the “Spearmen”.
Hulks would be the tanky ones. They would be the “Knights”. Good against Galleys unless they are massed.
Galleys would obliviously be the “Archers”.
Onager Ships would be a new unit that would take the same role as Mangonels. Be good against massed Archers.
2 Likes
Precisely, It is obvious that chronicles a trial test, but the system is still parallel, most changes of the main game doesn’t affect it because not the really the same units.
They did a trial with the ships in Chronicles and their test seem to have told them to include the Trirreme but not the Onager, they must have their reasons that they will not share and we can only speculate. Shipyard will probably never be a thing in the main game for legacy issues.
Yeah, not impossible but highly unlikely
The analogy doesn’t land completetly, Galley would always still be weak against Fire ships, unlike archers that are not especially weak against spears ( and also not analogous to horse archers if that was your next argument, they are too slow)