Also, did you count the konniks, because they were a lot more.
Yes 1, while they close the gap, then the GC die because they are outnubered.
Also as we were speaking:
https://youtu.be/LDUuDRpnWXs
Go to the condos and GC parts.
Also, did you count the konniks, because they were a lot more.
Yes 1, while they close the gap, then the GC die because they are outnubered.
Also as we were speaking:
https://youtu.be/LDUuDRpnWXs
Go to the condos and GC parts.
Please also check their elite stats.
Genoese crosbow is 19 secs and war wagon 21
And it does make sense to check the elite stats over the castle age stats because thats when you see this units the most.
Still less than elite war wagon, less than elite conquistador, and much less than elite mangudai.
But you actually donāt need those genoese crosbows in castle age. You have ALL the blacksmith upgrades, you have bloodlines and thumbring, so you have really nice knights and your archery range archers are very good in late caslte age because they have a technology called āpaviseā that gives those archers more pierce armor and melee armor.
You still have pikes. Pike upgrade is cheap.
So I donāt think italians are that weak on castle age. The same viper said āI should have gone light cavā well thats true and you as an italian can always go for it if you need it. Again: they have a really cool stable, not only archers. They are versatile.
And then you can pick imperal almost as cheap as a bizantine
For Burmese, I wish this monks could garrison in houses or monasteries (after being produced) or these monastery tech cost wood instead of gold. I think this will make their monk play more fun and interesting.
All foot archers UU take between 16s to 18s in castle age, and around 12s in imp.
Is not that strong of a tech, their arbs are still behind a lot of other foot archers, as they are their knights.
On land maps they are without eco bonus, military bonus or a consistent discount (well except HC, but they come in too late).
So why having GC, to never use them, why invest on a unit that I canāt then use in imp.
Sometimes itās disadvantage.
Well, you can totally see Mangudai for instance, and Mongols are weaker than Italian in castle age, so itās very much possible to see these Genoese xbows.
Because the enemy was massing xbows, so why would you need an anti-cav unit with shorter range?
Economically itās not that big, and not better than cheaper age up.
Korean save enough to build a new farm every 15 archers. Thatās crap.
Why did I say skirms? Because of course you will need something anyway to complement your genoese xbows. Basically you make skirms to hold the first wagon wave back, then once you have enough geneose xbows you force him into onagers that you can snipe with your much better cav.
Letās say it again: only Ethiopian arbs can beat them, and in castle age, Italian xbows> Ethiopian xbows.
Generic knights work just fine, itās not liek you were Malay or something.
???Cheaper age up???
How can versatility be detrimental?
I would add also britons long range is also way better than pavise, and mayan cheaper archers, but still italians have very good archers even thouh they are not the BEAST.
Itās true I only took into account straight fights, and thus forgot about those. Anyway, among all āarchersā civs, there will be one who will end up with the āworseā archers, and no amount of buffing will fix that, it would just change the one that is āworseā
There are a lot of unique units that in castle age are not really affordable or they are not so good so that sacrificing economy to make early castle actually worths it. However there is a lot of civs that develop its castle unique unit once they are about to hit imperial and the late game starts.
Actually there is another discussion on Italians balancing and I understood that the best way to balance them isā¦ basically nerf a bit theor water gameā¦ I post a similar comment:
A way to balance Italians is reducing their discount on dock techs in order to improve the one on age up.
For example, in castle water battle Italians spare 150 resources from cheap age up and, say you research war galley + careening, other 365 resources from the dock discount, for a total of 515.
If you had 20% age up discount and 40% dock discount, you get a similar effect of 492 resources, but more useful on land. Similar amount of resources (490) if you get 25% age up discount and 33% dock tech discount.
On imperial Italians spare, researching galleons, dry dock and imperial age, around 1130 resources.
If you had 25% age up and 40% dock discount it is like 1135 resources, and around 1100 if you had 30% age up and 33% dock techs.
In other words, dock techs nerf is 40%, age up buffed as 15-20-25%.
Even better to help on land (while weaker on water) dock techs 33% cheaper and age up as 20-25-30%.
Of course this is an overall nerf for Italians on water since the dock discount affect much more technologies that the two I have mentioned.
Overall they get nerfed on water, but making them more enjoyable on landā¦ still far from a solid land civ, but decent.
Just to give and example, 25% cheap castle age would be 100 resources more than now, less than one more knight, not a lot but still better than now.
A bit of help on land may help you to bit the castle for GC.
What about nerfing arambai armor/hp/rising the cost and giving Burmese the second armor? The game allows even for negative armors actuallyā¦ anyway I do not think that arambai would be op with +1/1 armor, considering that Burmese are a weak civ.
But I think that, even if you nerf a bit arambai to give them the armor, Burmese become more playable with a smooth transition maa->archers/crossbow->arambai
I made that rebalance with italians in my mod. 40%cheaper dock tech, 20%.
And maybe itās not mandatory to nerf arambai, only take away armor, and then give burmese the 2nd archer armor, (altough Iām not sureabout arambai melee and PArmor)
It is simple as calculation, but very smart. Even more balancing between land and water is 33% dock tech and 20-25-30% age up discount. The balance would be much better (even with 20-40 as you say is better).
Yep, just try and see if they become too strongā¦ but it would be again very simple and effective
The usefulness of an archer isnāt measured only how they win in equal numbers, etiopians havr6their bonus for free from the start, Britons, mayans, tartars, and viets have all better bonus, and all for free, most civs have something that improve/easier their more tipical units units (like franks with cavalry, Britons with archers and so on), Italians got only a tech, a useful one ok, but when you compare it with most of the other civs itās a lot less.
Well of course I would use skirms too against WW, but you were comparing the 2 UU so I keep up.
Yes but with Italians everything is generic, almost all civs have something unique from the start on their standard units or, at least, a powerful UU that can be trained fast (portos are the other exception).
Come on, itās a bottom tier bonus alone, it is strong combined with the cheap fishing ships, but on full land itās not that much, and itās fine, itās ok by me, they are a water civ and there is where they should shine, Iām just saying that on land their 2 unique things that they have (the GC and condos) should be seen more often, because thatās their specialty.
Being strong and fast on 1 thing sometimes wins vs being a bit good on everything.
They have better archers than for example teutons, but even tartars, huns, saracens and celts have better bonus to help their archers.
Yes I agree, and itās ok, Iām not complaining about their standard archer line, I just saying that they arenāt not that strong to compensate not buffing a little other things.
Itās not a problem of being affordable, GC cost more, and thatās itās ok for balance their bonus vs cavalry, but if someone get to the point of having a castle with the resources to train them, he shouldnāt find himself bottleneck because of their training time.
This could work, itās not necessarily, they could stay the same or being changed this way, itās wouldnāt change a lot alone.
Italians are a water cvis, so itās fair that most of the bonus are toward the docks, also -30% to imp with condos would be too much, bizz saves -33% only for imp.
Yes, but again, i wasnāt looking for balanced between land and water. I wanted them not to be that op in waterz and not as bad in land
So I think you did a good job also for balancing land and water
Well 30 % for imperial age is almost the byzantine bonus. It might be too much, but hey, itās just my opinion