FU light cavalry is more than enough to deal with skirms.
And TR only increases skirm accuracy to 100% from 90%. With or without it won’t change anything for skirms.
On the contrary, you’ll neuter their their cav archers for no reason.
My bad, I thought thumb ring increases the fire rate for skirms.
I still think taking away Bracer while giving their cav archers +1 attack in imp as civ bonus is a good option.
Hindustani def don’t need extra attack on cav archers because thye are supposed to go for Hand Cannons.
3 Likes
it is meant to nullify the loss of Bracer (+1 attack), by adding +1 attack to CA. That’s how their cav archer doesn’t get a nerf, still make their skirms and crossbows a bit weaker than before, making room for arbs to tackle their camels and hand cannons. They can still make Ghulams to counter arbs, which makes the play more interesting as Ghulam gets countered by infantry and cavalry, and costs gold.
Bracer also affects defensive structures and navy, remove bracer and they are unplayable on water.
5 Likes
I don’t think they are meant to have a good navy. And missing bracer doesn’t make their defense structures useless. There are other civs that do not have bracers. This will make them more balanced on both open and closed maps.
Sometimes this forum is hilarious to be honest.
Calling for nerfs because DLC civs “ARE OP” before they are even released, suggesting buff ideas for Siege Elephants before they are even tested in a competetive setting and now suggesting nerfs for Hindustanis with random number changes.
I’m getting the impression some people here have very limited understanding of the game with strong opinions set in stone without even testing if they are right. I even read someone suggesting taking away techs while they don’t even know which units they affect.
Hindustanis are a gold intensive counter civ just like Incas. Hindustanis dont’ have any fully upgraded unit as a transition from Castle Age except camels. They don’t have arbs, they don’t have knights. They don’t even have FU cav archers anymore. There is no power unit that grants you initiative with Hindustanis, because they are a COUNTER CIV and you switch units according to what your opponent does. Yes they do that well. Yes they need to switch into expensive techs to counter archers (Elite skirm is expensive and taxing on your eco, Ghulams require a castle which is taxing on your eco, you don’t have knights, your Light Cav is generic).
Their military is good but you need to adapt it to your enemy. Also saying their eco bonus is too strong in Dark Age is pretty funny, because I don’t see anyone complaining about Incas Dark Age, yet their Llama has THE IDENTICAL effect to Hindustanis.
Imagine Mayans or Chinese were released today, people would lose their minds and call them “CRACKED” online. Yes Hindustanis are strong, but they always were. People just thought Indians were bad because they didn’t have any fully upgraded unit. They don’t really have that now either, only their units got switched around a little. Their anti archer is no longer light cav, it is their castle UU, which is even harder to get to and it costs plenty of gold.
Honestly before we jump to conclusions just wait for the data
10 Likes
Hindustanis have way too much options on top of their strong eco. But taking out bracer makes their range completely trash except HC.
How about taking out Halb? Normally good camel civs such as Saracens, Berbers, Malians, Gurjaras don’t have access to halb, but Hindustanis have. It makes them also have access to nearly perfect trash. But after taking out halb, their trash option become limited.
2 Likes
It’s probably for the same reason the OG Indians had halbs despite having much stronger imp camels: because of mirror matches (and matches agaisnt Gurjaras now ig). Nothing else they have can beat imp camels, so they need halberdiers. This is also the reason Gurjaras having only bad spears was probably not the brightest idea, if you ever get in a Gurjara mirror it’s camel spam all day long without question.
1 Like
Except unlike Incas Imperial camel can actually be used as a Power unit on its own, and they have the best Hand cannons in the game that can be used against anithing with 9 range.
Cav Archer are also totally fine lacking just parthian tactics, and they also have Siege engeneer BBC with bonus armor and FU hussar. So i really do not think they lack full upgraded units.
Top it off with a top tier eco bonus and you can get why they seem a bit cracked atm. Even Hera said that
2 Likes
Except that Hindustani only eco bonus is the cheaper villagers, the rest is just military bonuses.
Compare that to Mayans and Chinese, which get vill lead, strong economies for feudal and castle age with a good amount of options + insane UUs.
I mean, there’s a reason why Mayans and Chinese are overall considered by pros simply too strong, better nerf those.
3 Likes
I think a lot of peopls underestimate the power of the cheaper vills.
It’s about 80 F by the end of dark age plus basically having 1 farmer for free in feudal already.
Of course it isn’t as strong as the eco of the powerhouses, but it is actually a meaningful bonus even if you don’t use it for booming.
1 Like
“only” eco bonus that is probably the strongest or close to the strongest in the game. it’s not that since mayans and chinese are OP others civ cannot be too strong too. mayans and chinese do need tweaks and nerfs, and so do Hindustanis in my opinion. i do think the magnitude of the nerf for the hindustanis should not be huge, they do not need a big nerf to be clear, but atm they just seem to have a little to much in a wide tech tree, superb eco bonus, incredible counter options that can also pack a punch in retaliation unlike byzantines counters for example
in other words, they have a strong response to everything you are throwing at them and basically any unit is hard-countered, and have a super solid eco behind that. and it’s not like they require the gold unit to counter, since they have FU skirms and Hussar and almost FU halberds anyway. they literally have an answer for everything BUT their answers can also kill you (cause ghulam, 9 range armored cannoner, or imperial camel have clear damage potential on their own)
It’s not just getting the extra food. It means you have to force drop less as well, and just makes it feel really smooth to constantly create vils. Arguably one of the most enjoyable eco bonuses to use, at least for me, definitely up there with stuff like Khmer farms and the folwark.
1 Like
This would be actually a killing nerf imo
Tbh so far this is just a “what appearing on top of a winrate chart does to a civ” topic. Like seriously, before that chart everyone was like “wow I hope the Gulham is good cuz they don’t have parthian tactics anymore, or the pierce armour bonus, and now that shatagni has more range their HC will be even more innacurate” but now it’s like they have the most perfect triangle of units ever created or something. But somehow the civs that are barely below them in the ranking aren’t just as OP? It makes no sense.
5 Likes
And the thing is, Shatagni doesn’t actually make them less accurate. At 7 range, they should still be the same, at 9 range they will probably hit less shots, but at least they have 9 range and can shoot long ranged stuff now.
2 Likes
Tbf that’s still kinda true bc the reason the civ is so good in 1v1 now is mainly ghulam. Ofc their camels are even better vs cav now but ghulam works as a go to unit vs everything that is not heavy cav. Even vs longswords they are decent (in case of doubt you mix in monks or siege which won’t work for your opponent that easily). Their hc have very little to do with that. I stopped counting my games as hindustanis where my opponent stubbornly continued playing xbows although they were seeing me being on stone on my way up. You have to make insane dmg with archers in late feudal to justify continuing to play that. And it’s even pretty easy to boom behind ghulam.
But other than that I agree people here are totally exaggerating how strong hindustanis are. If you pick the right strat and boom instead of pushing them after they have castle up you’re totally fine.
i agree, since both HC and camels are well handled by archers (even tough 9 range HC can do numbers against massed non-britons archers) and ghulam completely trash them, and has damage potential on its own with that speed. you need just a little number to be able to counter archers so the castle requirement is not that problematic as with other counters, since with speed, PA, pass-through damage and bonus damage, just a handful is enough. and their low food cost makes them easy to spam in castle.
one might say they are like eagles that requires a castle, but agains archers, they are stronger than eagles, and are not countered by militia line, are better against infantry in general, and civs that have eagles do not have gunpowder and cav, while hindustanis do
even before ghulam comes into play, you still have FU skirms to deal with archers so its not like you are forced into them even.
in general, being a good counter civ means that you spend less than your opponent do beat his forces, because that’s the very nature of a counter, but this counters also can kill you eco because good luck stopping hindu camels and ghulam running into your eco once they trashed your cav and/or archers
:)) don’t need they are nerf after update DLC, nerf other civil of dynasty indian