Horseman need a little buff, massed horseman vs massed archers is terrible matchup for horseman

Well, doesn’t seems a fair battle, English resorsces cost on field is like 3700 vs your side is 2200. I check on aoe4 world units cost.
You can’t beat it

And it’s not like I didn’t collect as many resources. I spent 300w on three towers to stop the harassment, I think 300 stone on tower upgrades. Two military academies (total 300w 200 stone) which barely produced 3 archers each, that was probably a waste. And three rams (750w) that I planned to use against his TC and landmark. Maybe If I put all those resources toward a second stable and spammed sipahi it would have been okay?

This is the problem with the horsemen unit. At decent levels of play you need either overwhelming horsemen advantage OR go mass archers and use your horsemen to play the micro game of teasing spears toward the front to be sniped.

With my idea spears would become even more cost effective vs horsemen with my suggested price increase HOWEVER horsemen like units would always be formidable vs range units especially if you get bsm upgrades advantage and 2 strike range units.

Also horsemen would get the landsknecht treatment and get mixed in with knights maa for meatshield but be the specialist against range units.

in those situation just leave the gold and build a tower somewhere where it can stop him building more towers(watch him what he is doing ofcourse if you sense he was trying to surrond you build tower) and keep playing because he will be behind you after that and for english always start with two stables or you dont have much chance

The workers allocation and where to spend resources is the key. Also scouting is important. If enemy is going to mass army you need to do it too asap, it’s high prob he is going to attack you. Build unit counters. In this case you need horsemen (sipahi) for their longbows and archers for their spearmen. Move vills on food and wood, you don’t need gold or stone in this case.
Then you need a decent micro, your archers need to focus on spearmen (shift click on multiple of them) and your sipahi engage longbows limiting the clash with the Spearmen. If you are not sure about engagement pull them under your tc fire, every helps is needed
Is it easy to do? No. You need practice. Anyway some opponents can be Much stronger than you, and even if you are doing your best your tactic may not be enough. Your opponent is simply better. And it doesn’t have to be a problem.
Another tip, if you are fearless and brave enough you should take some units and try to attack some uncovered point of its base even if the enemy attack is close. For the British, hitting the woodline is always a good thing.

This is almost exactly what happened to me. She even admits she’s not even trying and just screwing around having fun cheesing. Yet she’s shutting down a near-platinum player from 90 seconds into the game. English are stupid OP in dark-feudal and not even themselves can counter it. It’s all about who cheeses the other first. What a miserable game.

They’re about the same ELO, both very close to 1000. I’m not sure why the opponent didn’t just make a tower between the gold and the TC, out of range of her tower, but within range of the villagers. No more investment needed than what she has spent.

The question with strategies such as these is can someone consistently win until they reach a significantly higher ELO than they can reach with any other strategy. She might play against someone else of the same rating, do the same thing, but lose because that particular opponent defends it better than this opponent. If that were the case it’s just the normal roughly 50% win rate when you’re at your correct rating. One player at a given rating not knowing how to defend one strategy doesn’t prove it’s OP.

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If it is the case… Why every pro don’t take only english and do this for win S tier tournament? Simply, can’t work. A good player know how to counter this.
Watch this

Yea, that’s a top-10 player playing HRE, probably the best chance to counter English, and he had almost no pressure on him because his gold spawned in back. I wouldn’t even call that a rush.

I’m not even ranked yet so it’s great to know that I’d have to defend against cheese for 9 ranks and become S-tier just to get gud enough to survive a game against English. Sounds real balanced bro

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I haven’t played all that many ranked games myself, and haven’t had an English player tower rush me yet, but I have had two English opponents send an immediate 1 maa to my gold and both times it hurt them so much more than it hurt me and they were dead by 15 mins. I’ve played more 2v2 than any other mode, and have seen a decent variety of winning strategies. At my current level, in the 1100-1200 ELO range, if anything the game seems to slightly favour greed, i.e. early 2nd TC or fast castle.

Have you looked at what has happened to the ELO of the player who beat you since they beat you? If what they did beats all but the most elite players, their ELO should now be miles higher?

Well what are you waiting for dude? I had the same opinion as you in the first reply of this thread then I thought hmm, maybe see what he’s talking about and boom first game got mass archered. Deleted that opinion real fast. Hope someone else finds enjoyment out of those types of games tho.

I’ve played about 25 ranked games and have only once seen mass archers win, and that was a 1v1 game where I made only longbows and my opponent inexplicably made just one horseman, which was really tough to kill even with way more archers. After that he bizarrely tried to counter my longbows with normal archers, so the game was over by 10 mins. I quickly stopped going for longbows precisely because they’re so weak against horsemen. In the ranks I’ve played in, working up from mid gold to mid plat, mass archers is definitely not the meta, and when games have had a mix of golds and plats, the plats have typically won by letting the golds rush them while they build a stronger eco then crush them 10 mins later.

If you’ve only just had a go at your first ranked game, the game doesn’t start you off against the lowest ranked players, so you might well have lost because your opponent was better than you rather than because their strategy was strong. Pretty much any strategy will seem strong if used by a better player against someone 200+ MMR worse.

The reason I haven’t played more ranked games is they’re fairly stressful when you’re at a rank where people are similar skill to you, so I feel like I need my brain to feel really fresh to want to play a ranked game, and at my age, that doesn’t happen as often as it used to.

You’re taking my words too literally. Obviously I don’t mean ONLY archers when I say mass archers. They have towers and spearmen mixed in. You don’t need to try to rationalize for me what I saw in the game I played. I reported it here and if you want to ignore those facts just to keep your bias that the game is flawlessly balanced then that’s on you.

And at what time in the game did they have all of towers and spears and archers at your base?

I’m certainly not claiming that, I’m just saying that pure mass archers is definitely not the meta. The OP was claiming that pure mass archers are not countered by pure horsemen. Others have since modified this claim to be archers+spears not being countered by horsemen+archers, but that really comes down to the micro skill of the two players, e.g. in the DeMuslim video above he easily micros a win for the horsemen+archers by going in with the horsemen to force the spears forward then pulling the horsemen back and killing the spears with his archers. Even players around 1000 ELO can do that.

The game is balance enough. There are some strat easier to do than other, but there isn’t any op.
This is win rate in gold for all civs in solo ranked. Malians is the only civs that struggles because it’s harder to macro

Here there is a selection of English vs others civ in range 1000-1100 elo, try to watch something if you wanna learn faster than try and repeat in game

Aoe4world is a bible for statistics, so give an eye you wanna go a little more than a simple casual player.
I’m not a pro nor a casual. I’m a simple plat player that plays 10 hours at week. I prefer 3vs3 or 4vs4 than 1vs1. I prefer a less stressfull match. So i suggest try multi before go for 1vs1

I was just about to post the same thing. I just watched the current top 3 games from here (the <20 mins is to try to find a successful English rush game)

None of them had the English player rushing with longbows, spears and towers. Overall, despite being higher ELO than my games, I generally saw the same trends of greed being strong, and dark age maa being a struggle to do more damage to the defender than how much it slows down the attacker.

Edit: finally found an example of an English player winning with pretty early lb+spears+tower (had sent 1 maa in dark age first):

But he’s 170 ELO higher rated than the player he beat, and at the end he can’t understand why the opponent didn’t just make an outpost with arrowslits.

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feel free to look me up in game and cast my play, same name in game.

I don’t think there’s any way to see a replay of your game unless you make your match history visible and I add you as a friend. I can see your game in the history for your name on aoe4world, but as neither of you has your match history visible, I can’t see any more info about it. Your opponent has 948 1v1 ELO and lost his next 2 games as English, so if he did the same thing the next two games, it didn’t work.

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Her elo is now above 1200, i.e. plat 3, so it seemed easy because she was playing a much worse player. If you watch the first game in her latest stream, you’ll see her early rush with lbs and spears achieve next to nothing, and it just sets her back relative to her opponent.

Road to Conqueror - Twitch

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Kind of feel “is English rush OP” is a different question to whether horsemen are bad into mass archer.
I think there’s an argument around Gold/Plat English is far too forgiving. Top level players seem able to punish it - so the answer may just be “get good” - but I’m not sure that stacks up. Top players would also bring in things like “you shouldn’t play civ X if your opponent is likely to go civ Y on map Z” which I’m not sure is great for the game - but is a competitive reality.