How 2 player at different pace face each other?

In age of empire 4, I wonder how a player at different pace could do a match ranking that is equal and keep playing.

If we set the game at low pace, the higth pace player will stop playing.

If we put the game at higth pace, the low pace player will stop playing.

If we put the game at midle pace, the low pace player and the higth pace player will leave.

Do any of you can think of a solution ?

I don’t think everyone will just up and leave because of pacing. It will vary according to player ability, civ, map, etc. For example in aoe2 there is a big disparity on how people play in lower ranks vs higher.


That’s why professional designed RTS like C&C or Starcraft do have game speed settings.

Like BossPaprika1647 said in his wise post:

It is true, but, what i want, is to let every player play at their pace sgaints others players at other pace.

Yes, but speed setting only work for a time. People are never at the same pace and change pace over time.

It is not long befor players tired up, of a fix standart pace that is not theirs, and just leave the game.

See age of empire 2 to try force people at higt pace.

See age of empire online, to force people to play at low pace.

Solve the room question and you get the new generation of rts.


I want to see a slow pace old grand-mother figth, in equal term, whit his fast pace son, that is a pro player, whit no nerfing stats.

The only way you can do this without “nerfing stats” is to limit the APM allowed by the system (only element left that does not touch stats). But there is not a single reason for a “pro” or “higher pace player” to do this and to enjoy it.

But having what you want is a problem because it will in the end cause what you try to solve with it. If you make a system where a slow player is equally strong to a fast player, why would a fast player play this? The effort and skill is not rewarded and like others said before, just change the gamespeed. If you want challenge play vs multiple opponents, cheating AI etc.

You are trying to break the foundation of RTS, everyone starts with the same ressources etc. and your skill and performance is what makes the difference. If doing more stuff and faster stuff than your opponent is not rewarded, you defeat the basic concept of why people play competitively. If you dont want that, you are in the wrong genre.

Also, with custom maps, co-op, etc. you can find enough spots in RTS where many different players can play and enjoy together regardless of skill level. But competitively this can not work (outside of teamgames where you try to balance the teams but this is a completely different topic).


I never said to slow down pace of fast player or speed up pace of slow players.

I want to keep the fast player at their loved fast pace and keep the slow players at their loved slow pace, in a rts game.

i want to alow them to fight each other at their loved pace, in equal terms.

I think that clicking the mouse and keyboard, has fast has possible, should be a requirement to be a pro player, since every one computer and gear are not the same, and that the internet has latency between nations.

That was not what i tried to explain to you.

and also

Whatever i would answer you now, i would repeat myself from the previous post. Maybe you overread it, but i am adressing your “problem” right there in those quotes.

This is exactly why it can not work. Even if we assume the technical problems of fast and slow gamespeed mxi would work, it will be unfair, unequal and not rewarding at all for the faster player, you make the slower player better and dont give anything to the better player. Who would want to play that game? It breaks the foundation of RTS where the better player is rewarded.

Even in games like Anno 1800 and CK3 those who play faster will have an advantage, due to it being played in realtime.

If you want them to stand on equal footing, it needs to be turn-based.


This is all easily solved by just having an mmr system. Weaker slower players will play with people of similar skill, whereas higher skill faster players will play with people of similar level.

And we know aoeIV will have that. At the end of the day the player who is doing more faster should win, they are the better player.


I quite disagree whit your thinking. I am quite sure that some slow player can play more strategicaly then a fast player and win any way, even if it is harder for the slow player.

Some people just got a slower reation time then people that got fast reaction time.

Some people play the game whit windows 90 computer, whit a ball mouse and a old keyboard.

Some people got the earliest pc, whit tuch mice and tuch keyboard.

I think that pro player are not those who play the fastess, but those who can turn tides on batlefield, whit the creativity, whit their own play speed.

You actualy need to be a genious to win against a pro player at higth speed, when you are a slow player.

I want to age of empire 4 to be the best game.

Being the best game, also mean being equal in challenge to every one, or people will just leave because they see the game is not equal.

I don’t contest that pro players at higth speed are not pro, i just say that some pro players are missing because of their general latency.

Also, I don’t think we need to turn age of empire 4 into a turn based game, i still want it to be an rts game XD.

Now you are moving the goals posts. This is an entirely different discussion.

This was your original point. No one here was talking about more strategical players or rushing players or makro players or whatever other type. You simply wanted slow players to be equal to faster players which is not how RTS works.

In your now newly opened topic between more strategic players there is no conflict and your problem is solved. People can play fast and still be strategic. They are not excluding each other. There is not only slow+strategic. And RTS games always had space for strategic play by the definition of the word and name, therefore the name “Real Time Strategy” :wink:
So with your new topic here you dont need to worry about strategic play being possible. But you will never change that if your opponent plays strategic as well and is faster you will still lose. :wink:

I wager there will be different maps to accomodate for different paces, similarly to AoE2. In AoE2 if you want slower games, you have maps like Arena, Black Forest, Michi… and if you want something fast, you have stuff like Socotra or Crater to accomodate. For most people (the AoC version of) Arabia map catered for a decent balance between paces.

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did u never played aoe2?
I mean literally age franchise solved it. Low elo players just have lower rank and can build houses/cities etc.
As game goes longer the more pace it gets.

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Yeah this, there’s nothing wrong with being slower and playing at a lower rank.
Matchmaking keeps things fun!

i mean u can not “solve” it for pro players.
only step-by-step strategy can restrict any APM advantage.
If u take the lord Daut , and would give him 500+ apm, how the slower Daut would win him? With same decisions?

Did u play aoe2?
I mean if u did, u should not have this question, it’s solved almost perfectly.

the real problem that slow pace players are lazy and cant learn build orders.
Even TheControler player (playing on XboX controller) could hit top 10% rating (1.4kmmr)

I am happy that you also see the problem.

I simply wanted slow players to be equal to faster players, which is not how RTS works rigth now.

If we don’t solve it, then the low pace player and the medium pace players will just quit the game, after solo play and a few online play, seing that they can’t figth fast paced players, on a equal level.

We are talking about how many players? Around 85k, if the fast players base is at 15k.

It is like a huge chunk of players that just leave and don’t comme back.

All that possible income that just fly away, in lost of total interess.


I played age of empire 1,2,3 and age of empire online (worst game ever)

I also palayed:
Planetary aniliation ( loved it alot, maps should look like in this game, in form of planet)
red alert 1 and 2
Comand and conquer 1 and 2
Civilization 1,2,3,4,5,6
Rise of nation ( one of my loved rts)
Roaler coaster tycoon 1-2-3
And over 200 others games

The elo is not a solution actualy.

I don’t see my self saying to people:


I will put every one, of same playing speed in the same box and make them figth only each other.

And those box will be shorted buy speed.

The best player will be the best of the top
fast players.""""

People will try, but afther a time, they will say:

“”" look at me, i can’t advance because i am too slow.
i am in box number 9 and players in box 1 are soo fast.
I could never acheive theire skill level, because i think to slow and i have hard time moving my old bones.
I will just let them the place and find something else to do."""""

The people just feal rejected, being underclass, because of their play speed and not because of their play skill.

Thats just how games in general work. Its never fun to get completely stomped by someone 2 tiers higher than you. With matchmaking you can at least play vs people within your skill lvl. And if you improve maybe you can advance up! Its a matter of learning a skill.

i gave some examples how it balanced in aoe2: Daut/JhonSlow/TheLefty/TheController - great examples. In aoe u dont need high APM to be top 10%.

Check there were some sc2 streamers how have 500+ apm and they grided aoe2 ladder. They could not do anything with apm cause they did poor decisions.

People just lazy to learn build orders and making excuses that they are not fast enough.

Aoe formula solving it quite good.

PS For aoe4 devs moved micro even further(u need less mciro), so now i’m afraid for the pro players, game should have potential to micro and outmicro the fights.

Sory guys, the solution was found in a other room.

The answer was “istrolid”, a rts game.

You build a unit and program the ai reaction.

Ai figth using player coding and build.

Player is alowed to move unit or let ai control.

The player can always modify ai reaction in game or have a list of build ready to use.

I think age of empire 4 could be inspired about it.