Link me to where he says this I don’t think Ca would work except maybe with huns I could be wrong though. Hera would obviously know better
I would have done so already if I remembered the exact video. I know it’s not the best habit of citation but I hope you understand I don’t go through 1 hour + just to find it and I’m 100% sure he said it (watched it a couple of weeks back). I think it’s in one of his multiple fast imp videos.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH51RBtPw8o vivi makes ca here but he dies i think he does a lot better if he just makes knts
Well, I literally never saw a single game where full knights worked and I think there are good reasons for that. Firstly, even only a handfull of hc 2 shots knights and secondly, knights are so food-intensive that it’s super hard to have them massed by min 22 (the build itself is pretty straight forward so even intermediate players can pull it off). If you can delay your opponent long enough you still have a shot but that applies to pretty much every unit (well ok I didn’t think of infantry in my previous post but I guess everyone agrees on infantry doesnt work against hc). That doesn’t mean you cannot make a couple of knights to try to snipe bbc if you manage to seperate these from the hc.
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I disagree. In fact I have made knts several times against fast imp turks and won. If you stop vil production you can afford it and you still have much better eco than your opponent. Viper gives his thoughts here at about 17:25 he thinks stables and ranges but i would struggle to afford that maybe he could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH2ulXr7KiQ (have edited to correct link)
That is not the viper
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The strategy of Hera was lucky because the enemy was not prepared and didn’t have enough time to produce military. But he was far behind Eco. So if the defence would be successful, Hera lose the game.
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woops my bad have edited it above to correct link
Thanks!
The whole point of a FI is also to hit your opponent quick and fast with strong units and kill your enemy or otherwise you will most likely die. It is kind of a big risk big reward strategy.
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Knights and xbows is obviously the strongest castle age unit composition but as you said hard to pull off, probably best to go one tc - that’s at least how that composition works on arabia with regular feudal play. If there are already multiple tcs running, maybe add ranges first, stall the game and add knights when you get the chance.
every time i use siege towers they never put my troops on the other side of the wall
Someone in Hera’s Discord said today:
“Man, I’ve just done 21 min FI with turks in arena and easy victory with gunpowder army, thank you very much for your BO and video, it’s great!”
This is something that concerns me a little about the forthcoming preferred map feature, I fear that the meta will be to just practice a single strategy on a single map, and you’ll basically have to do the same yourself, otherwise you’ll always lose out because if you express no map preference and are matched against someone with a preference, you’ll always be playing on their map, so you’re likely to be less practiced than them on that map.
Back to what to do if you want to play Arena, don’t want to go Turks yourself, and find yourself up against a Turks player…
There seem to be 3 main suggestions in the thread as counters:
- Crossbows
- Knights
- Cav Archers
I tried these in the combat simulator:
https://aoe-combatsim.com/
10 HC vs 10 Arbalest = 0 - 8.05
10 HC vs 10 Heavy CA = 0 - 9.75
10 HC vs 10 Paladin = 0 - 10
However, it can only do post-Imperial, which is making the non-HC units too strong, as they have all Imperial upgrades.
So I used the Scenario Editor to do some tests:
All units Imperial, i.e. all possible Castle Age upgrades:
10 Crossbow vs 10 HC
1-0
7-0
6-0
7-0
5-0
10 CA vs 10 HC
5-0
5-0
5-0
10 Knight vs 10 HC
9-0
9-0
9-0
HC Imperial, opposing units Castle, i.e. all possible Feudal Age upgrades:
10 Crossbow vs 10 HC
0-5
4-0
0-3
2-0
0-2
10 CA vs 10 HC
0-5
0-6
0-5
10 Knight vs 10 HC
9-0
8-0
8-0
So if making 10 of each vs 10 HCs, Knights look like a strong option, as they consistently win, even without any Castle Age upgrades. In practice, of course, not all units are equally easy to make 10 of.
The Scenario Editor was also giving some slightly odd behaviour where HCs seemed to be quite prone to choosing to not shoot, so it might be overestimating the effectiveness of the other units a little. Crossbows seemed a bit “fragile” in that they were giving more variable results than the other units across multiple runs of the scenario.
That is how it was in AoC and HD, where people just played the same civs, the same way, always on Arabia.
The standard was random civ, not pick civ. At least at Voobly.
It actually was not, since some civs are so bad at Arabia, Random could get you auto-losses.
It was mostly people playing the same civs over and over again, in the exact same way every time.
Nah most people were playing ara random civ on voobly.
They only work if facing head on, if they are sliding up side by side with the wall, they wont work.
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Well it dies to both boom and aggression, but assuming you’re not being aggressive - 21 minutes imp time, you have 60 vills absolute minimum vs 34. Keep a single TC running to at least be the same production by control grouping it alone and using that to queue vills. Add stables asap, just keep massing knights - ez win. It’s a strategy you just can’t die to at higher levels (Sorry twigg) - the problem there is whether the game should be balanced around 98% of the playerbase’s experience, or the upper 2% where balance matters significantly more and is the result of all the streams and competitive community that keeps the game alive.
Another strat is obviously cav arch, or siege tower xbow (Now that ST are said to be fixed, though we’ve heard that before). VS turks in general you want to open with some kind of map control, preferably with xbows, because jannisary + mango is one of the strongest strategies on Arena, which is funny because fast imp for anything other than monk treb is pretty much the worst .
Fi monk treb is also quite strong vs it.
Dude, just trush your opponent if you see they’re Turks. You’ll cause enough panic to disrupt any Turks BO and delay them moving out too.
Remember, Turks are a bad eco and late game civ. Most players under 1600 will fumble the BO if their deer are a bit too far or a bird flies by. Throwing someone off rhythm is pretty easy TBH.
Then you can boom behind and get map control.
I’m 3 for 3 on this as of this thread starting… and I hate arena. You guys are totally overthinking this.
The best thing about this game and established “op meta” is that you know exactly what is coming.