Had a game recently where I lost, it was even-ish until Imp, then the opponent flooded Pikes + Eagles. I pigeonholed myself into full Knights into Hussar, which is a strat I auto-pilot into a lot, and ultimately lost the game. The opponent played quite smart, preying on Aztecs all-in potential and making just few Eagles but then booming + adding Pikes (contrary to the expectation of the all-in, which sometimes forces people to make too much army for an all-in that never comes).
I should have added Arbalest sooner perhaps, but I generally hate transitioning into Crossbow/Arbalest as Khmer if I don’t start on those in early Castle age, since they lack Thumb Ring and that’s a big downside for late Castle as well where you are trying to build mass for Imp.
Anyway, to simplify my discussion, I have 2 questions:
how do Khmer counter pike + another random annoying unit that fits the Pike perfectly (say Eagles, or even potentially Knights) elegantly? Inelegant ways of countering would be, 2 handed swordsman (lacks Champion, last armor and Squires and iirc Supplies too), Scorpions (opponent just ignores your infantry/Knight mass, runs in with 3 eagles/hussars, snipes scorpions and runs out), Ballista Elephant (this is like the ultimate Khmer unit that is good vs everything but also takes a lot of time to build mass), Arbalest (lacks Thumb Ring so vulnerable to Knight/Eagle switches, it’s not rly a unit you wanna stay on for prolonged periods as Khmer).
more generally, how do you guys see Khmer v Aztec matchup? Was it a civ win a little bit? Who has the advantage in Feudal, Castle and Imperial, and why?
PS: I know Aztecs don’t have Halbs, my question is a bit generic, and a bit specific to the matchup. I probably could have won, had I built a good Cavalier mass and controlled Gold spots enough, but vs a civ with Halbs, I’m not so sure full Cavalier cuts it.
Maybe this is bad advice, but in a matchup like that, I might have defaulted to one of the scorpion style units from the start. Aztecs are going to be making infantry, and often archers, sometimes monks. Ballista Elephants + hussars would handle all that probably, so I would probably aim for that. Just start massing them early if you expect a lot of pikes or something, then you don’t have to wait as long I guess.
I feel regular Scorpion is actually underpowered, and the Elephant one is actually good (doesn’t have the main weakness of regular one which is Knights), but also it’s only truly good as a 1-unit spam only once you get Elite, SE, and Double Crossbow and like 30 of them (takes 15+ min ingame to set up).
The problem is that in 1v1 Arabia, you are kinda “trapped” sometimes at high level or (like me) semi-high level. I don’t have a super solid graps of the game, but I feel like opening Xbow as Khmer is, more often than not, a mistake, because Eagles counter Xbow more than Xbow counters Eagles. Furthermore, the Khmer economy is so shoehorned into making Knights due to Wood savings & faster Farms. So if you autopilot (like me sometimes), it’s natural to open Knights in Castle Age as Khmer. Whether that’s the right call, I can’t say, Knights feel bad long-term since opponent played it pretty well I’d say (at early-mid Castle Age, where Knights could overwhelm, didn’t show Eagles too much, and added 2 Monks at the right time), Crossbows feel bad short term because even if he opened 2 TCs, he can decide to not add more Eco and just start Eagle all-in.
tl;dr: sometimes in specific matchups you can’t go a certain unit for free, because then you just die in the middle of the transition. One textbook example is opening Cav Archers, generally ill-advised since you need A LOT of upgrades and mass, both Knights and Xbow in small numbers crush you and steamroll from there.
This question is like how frank handle archer in late game and how Huns handle Goths in late game; Khmer do not have an good answer to eagle civ in late game.
Khmer have good arbs and the best scorps in the game.
And their hussars are even more expandable than of most other civs.
They also have almost FU skirms and HCs.
Don’t see a prob here, really. Many other civs have way less and it’s not a problem.
Khmer have the upper hand all the way. You could have win in feudal or early castle.
Nice to hear that Khmer lost HC
Generally speaking people don’t make enough scorps, when they talk about countering infantry masses. Scorps are cheaper than most people realise, and in order for them to do the job you need a fair number of them that will work out much much much cheaper than teching into and massing arbs.
You should obviously have enough units with them to counter whatever is going to snipe the scorps. If eagles are running in and sniping enough scorps them obviously the rest of your army was out of place
On top of this, the same thing that applies to trebs applies here. Dump gates. You’re at a high enough level that dropping gates in the field is within your skill level, and they do enough to break up enemy movement. The only reason people don’t do it, is because it’s weird. People should be using the bad pathing more often
Aren’t ballista eles one of the riskier options due to ultra Aztec monks?
Are you sure? Most pros rank Aztecs top 5 on Arabia. Khmer are also top 7-10. Regardless, Aztecs have an eco bonus too, and early Castle Age I haven’t heard any pro or friend tell me how to beat those 7 Eagles (that you mass in Feudal already) + 2 Monks + 2 Spearmen army compositions. Eventually Knights + Light Cav gain a critical mass and overwhelm, but early Castle age, particularly conversions (Aztec Monks or not) play a HUGE role in tampering with a cav civ’s potential.
It is not about khmer it is about halbs. People dont realise how broken halbs are.
Sorry, what? Did I miss something?
I would go for hc opening with 2-3 onager if you scout a push with pikes rams early on you, but you should have a great imp timing with khmer so it shouldn’t happen, the real issue in this matchup to me is the map control and relics which should be easy to get with some eagles from the aztecs, as you mention, it’s dangerous to let the aztecs getting the middle since he can do what he want and get an insane gold generation from the relics, however, i prefer a lot eagles than lights cavs to control the middle that’s easier, so you are quite a a lot forced to win the middle which kill your imp timing, quite tough to have the balance between these.
(I was assuming you talked about arena ? )
for arabia khmer are completly civ win on all stages on the games to me?
I just realized, Khmer have HC. For some reason, even during the game, I was convinced they didn’t have them. Deserved loss then I guess, I tried to do a very late Arbalest switch, but I lost my Hussar mass and I didn’t trade as well as I would have liked vs the Elite Eagles.