How in the world are people saying Malta is Broken now?

have you ever tried to dodge culvs with seige eles? cause thanks to being weak to skirms, its one hell of a dance to somehow get onto culvs and not play into light infantry fire. it requires a level of babysitting. nomrally its still not unless you got perfect micro and even then if able, you do not want to play this game. all while fat cannon wallops you. and you either have to dodge all shots form culvs, win, then target fat cannon and somehow not get eaten alive by steel bolt xbows. meanwhile as malta i just put the cannon down a few xbows and culvs and decide if i want to go 4 or boom in 3. army scales better anyways. on a map with chokes its even worse.

I also note you added in some more cards which are very uncommon for 1v1 but even then, going age4 as India isnt usually the best as the civ tends to not scale as well as many unless you can age and press cards like 2inf rockets or urumi. . Certainly, by age4 the xbow spam basilisks and even greater range fixed cannons (remember they are range 39 by age4) makes this even worse to push into long term for india. Other than a mahout swap that catches them off guard (even maltese goons which is worst in game scaling is actually solid vs “pathing god plz let them connect” mahouts) you are going to simply have to dive into one miserable configuration. fixed cannons, basilisk culvs, arbelstors all that are significantly cheaper and even pop efficient compared to your seige eles.

You are right about the cards bonus hp and culvs, i forgot the 1% now means it takes 2x a long. still by age4 its more than enough when paried with RG ups for culvs. But otherwise, i dont see how india can force cost effective trades other than going 4 before malta or by what i see 99% of games at high level india rushing malta down cause you dont want to play the above scenario. which again loops back into my orignal point of malta as is forces you to exploit its glaring weaknesses or die for most civs which makes the m/u’s very 1 dimensional.

The point here is that you are not dodging cause again it takes them a heck of a lot more shots to take out one ele then you need to take down the fixed gun and then run away again, you dont try to win a culv war as asian civs, its never worth it, you take out the damaging lynch of the opponent’s army (the fixed gun) and let your other units deal with the rest.

If you go mahout , siege ele + infantry or go the old ceasefire combo maltese units can survive you but they aint gonna trade well.

The fixed gun also cannot damage your siege eles, they count as artillery.

This entire time I have only mentioned 1 card for india (elephant combat) which if you are going to go elephant you want to go anyway, siege elephants have built in siege resist now, you dont need the age 4 ele armour card for them to have siege resist

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All you need to do this is 1 card in age 3 not even age 4

Coffee if your not dodging a mass of culvs(remember culvs rarely arent in pairs or 3x) seige eles usually come in a shipment and then require alot of investment (well not huge but for india who needs to pay for ups and slow to age3 signfiicant) you may only have the 2 for quite some time. You arent going to get much value sitting still

Also doesnt culv now doe an extra .75 thx to seige unit changes? Regardless your 650res 7 pop 28range eles with war wagon turning are going to have to try and hit 34 range culvs (thx to fat cannon los will have first shot) then not get pushed off by xbows. If you think its easy to whittle down culvs, then fixed gun, all under fixed gun mutliple culvs and xbow again i dont think this is easy unless you perfectly outplayed opponent. This is not a z move culv war this is actual opponent who will move culvs, will.press with xbow or order goon or huss etc, with a now better boom and scaling behind it until natural res are gone. Doesnt seem ideal for india to let it get there.

That has always been the case, it used to be a hidden 1.75 against siege eles only but now its a general change and I already take that into account in the numbers, which again you should really check

edit: if not for that multipliers, it would take 5 culvs to kill a single siege elephants, though that might be nice

and its not like malta wont need time to setup their choke walls of death, artillery foundries for culvs and the fixed gun that needs to be built which can be disrupted by 2 28 range siege eles.

Again and I really want to stress it the idea is you are not clearing the culvs before you need to clear the cannon, asian civs do not engage in culv wars.

you really think india is just easily going to stroll in seige elephants, dodge all possible shots, not get zone’d by scaling xbow, and stroll out in age3 vs entrenched malta. Cause i havent seen anyone up to ezad have fun pushing into fixed guns or make these trades cost effective consistently. maybe now with wall nerfs and Adv Arsenal, but those arent really available to TAD/native civs
Also usuallyu 1rst fixed gun is sent as a card btw so yeah, it goes up quick. foundry is hardly an issue once winning court comes in or 1k wood.

Now what I do see is india players rush hard cause thats not a game they will win long term unless it goes long enough for malta late game weakness to cuir types and lack of natrual res kicks in. and thats a long time for malta to scale out of control if you leave them alone. safer to rush.

Which is my entire point to begin with as I’ve said multiple times, is that the ease this happens (is walls and 1FG wagon then 1k wood for artillery isnt hard or unheard of to get early 3) stalls any game ded until very late. frustratingly long and for many civs, might not even be able to scale long term. So to counter it you rush/timing all in. I dont think thats healthy. and it gimps malta being able to be better designed vs the ff/timing since its too strong otherwise. I think all or nothing isnt a fun proposition in such varied dynamic game such as aoe3

You know that siege elephants are also pseudo mortars right they have x10 against buildings and x1.25 against walls. If malta is walled up and entrenched then you start clearing the walls with them.

That is 2 shipments + a lot of wood on walls espeically with the nerf which is a decent amount of time (nearly 2 mins) and the wood investment, which again could be based on how my view of what is “early age 3” but that is something that you do have time to respond to

I am not saying that its not annoying once it comes but its also not like the other civs dont have a window to do things

we can agree that there are things to change about the fixed guns though I do have to say if you gonna have a varied dynamic then the stall will have to be part of it cause otherwise we go back to the old skirm goon games. most civs at this point can scale long term (I genuinely have a hard time thinking of a civ that doesnt have a scale play or atleast has the ability to boom at a decent level) but I do think at this point the decision making hasnt shifted with malta on what to do against it.

We used to have a lot of arguments against japan and port “oh no they walled and is booming what do I do, organ guns behind walls and they have water” and yes malta is different but I still dont see people trying to fight it the same way that people have fought against those civs behind their layers of walls and guns and defenses.

edit: will civs need dedicated anti-malta decks, probably but I still see this as the same back when people need dedicated decks against japan and port as well

I really dislike the conversations where a hypothetical 1v1 is described where whatever civ is being talked about is painted as either infallible and played perfectly and whatever other civ is described as helpless and exclusively played by incompetent players who can’t adapt to a single unit shipment or wall

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Look its not impossible, nor is every civ the same, but if an entire game is a race to a window to me its not a good design. Right now, because malta is weak to timings/ff, that is your window. afterwards it gets much harder. i dont think its that hard for malta to set these up if they arent hit early or opponent is passive. That all im saying. sure is it instant gg if malta gets a cannon vs india? no. But lets add in some of the proposed buffs. lets say suddenly, malta order units are cheap or they let them scale (as been propsesed) lets say they get 1 fixed guns and tower) or a fixed gun and depot.or they give malta extra tempo early on, a true FF so that ability to stuff the midmap is suddenly faster, etc. Suddenly, Malta goes from hit or miss to overtuned because a fixed gun in the face is alot deadily if its say 30s sooner or even backed by better units. Its a common pattern in DE. Buff everything, reduce nothing, and the sum goes from under to overpowered.

So like I’ve been trying to point to, you are unlikely to be able to buff malta in some areas without causing others to be over tuned unless you change them to be a bit weaker. Which is why im against such units as fixed guns which require basically 1 counter only. As we saw in usa goon, port ordenanca, italy lombard cards, incan huaraca, ottoman azap, there are things that are already maybe niche or hard to pull off are extremely sensitive to becoming op as hell due to their specialized designs. shadowteching consulate cav, a scaling eco (again, for 1v1 where most civs have 1-2 eco cards), scaling infantry, extra forts and defenses (commandaries) and their forgotten water.

Thats the tldr question i think is we got 2 options: we can keep malta similar imho to dutch; a civ thats great on some maps and matchups but struggles in QS; or round it out to be more flexible but less strong/focused in some areas. It should be asked before we just buff a civ blindly because “it struggles.”