How realistic are Italian, Swedish and Maltese consulates?

So when Asian Dynasties came out, three of the civs were allocated diffierent combinations of the 8 euro civs at the time, now that we have 11 euro civs, should the rest 3 be added into consulate options as well, maybe not necessarily right now, maybe after the 4th or 5th Asian civ comes out?
Regarding historical relevance, I guess Maltese is probably out of the question, Italians and Swedish might make some sense.
What are your thoughts?

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The United States should actually be included in possible consulate options (even including Ethiopia), and the emergence of these countries may be the fifth consulate option opened by Asian dynasties (such as the option to add the United States to Japan’s consulate (the Black Boat Incident), or the option to add Ethiopia to India’s consulate (the African black community in India), or the emergence of new Asian countries. Italy (mainly Venice) signed an alliance with Safavibos against the Ottomans, which could serve as an alliance option for the Persians. However, Sweden did not participate in the colonization of the Asian region in its colonial history, making it difficult for them to appear in the alliance options of Asian dynasties

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During the 19th century Siam went out of their way to establish diplomatic relations and embassies with european nations that didn’t have colonial ambitions in his region.

Sweden may not have participated in the colonization of Asia, but the King of Siam literally visited Sweden to establish an embassy there, so if there’s any civ that could realistically get them as an option, it’s them.

I also believe that the number of selection options in the Consulate could be increased - but Isolation could be a separate option that would not appear together with the other options in one window.

This would be to highlight Isolation, which should be available to every Asian civ and should receive a major rework. The isolation should work a bit like the French Revolution (it could be two-stage). Isolations should offer interesting and new solutions for Asian civs (historically correct, of course). These could be completely new buildings, units and technologies. The second level of Isolation would make Asian civs more modern (all units would become modern - 19th century). In this way, more interesting events from the history of these countries would be captured, such as the Meiji Restoration for the Japanese civ or the Boxer Rebellion for the Chinese civ. Of course there would be limits to Isolation:

  1. The first stage would be available in Age 4 - it would be a light seed for the westernization of civ (updating the most archaic units).

  2. The second stage would be available in Age 5 and would present Asian civs from the second half of the 19th century, with a slight hint of the early 20th century. In addition, Asian civs would gain a completely new flag and access to some European technologies.

As a digression, if we follow the core stage of the historical period (1500-1850) in “Age of Empires 3”, the four most suitable consulate allies for China (if only four are selected) should be:
Russia: The first European country that borders China from the mainland, and the first country to set up an agency with consulate functions in Beijing.
Portugal: During the Ming Dynasty, they tried to attack China. After being defeated by China, they rented Macau as a stronghold and sold artillery called “Red Barbarian Cannon” and artillery called “Frankish Cannon” to China.
Netherlands: they once occupied Taiwan for a long time and had conflicts with the Ming Dynasty navy at the Pearl River Estuary and the Penghu Islands. It fought a war with the Ming Dynasty’s Koxinga Zheng Chenggong and was defeated. Later, they formed an alliance with the Qing Dynasty in an attempt to attack the Ming-Zheng regimes.
Britain: An important partner of China’s foreign trade in the Qing Dynasty, it opened China’s closed door through the war of aggression in 1840. After 1864, theye helped the Qing Dynasty suppress the Taiping Rebellion.

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There’s something wrong with your proposition. The asians got “modernized” BECAUSE of european contact, not by isolating themselves.

How could they westernize and get european techs if they’re isolated?

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Isolation, or non-alignment, is a kind of foreign policy choice, so it is also reasonable to be an option in the Consulate. I don’t think such a change or rework is needed.

Not all Asian civilizations need Isolation, for example the Indians and potentially the Siamese don’t because they never practiced it. The Chinese deserve to replace the German ally with Chinese Isolation, as it was practiced in both the Ming and Qing dynasties.

We obviously don’t need every European civ to be a Consulate option. Due to historical reasons, some Europeans, such as Italians, Swedes, and Germans, obviously had less and/or later activities in Asia than other Europeans. Even Spainish were unexpectedly less actively involved in the politics of Asians than expected because their focus was on the Americas.

If all foreign allies have to be Europeans/Westerners, and if we needed to introduce the fifth option for the three existing Asian civilizations, I would pick United States for Japanese and Chinese to represent the modernization that the U.S. brought to both countries, and Dutch for Indians to represent the Dutch India.

Similar to the Ottomans, the Safavid dynasty of Persia had a competitive and cooperative relationship with the Mughal dynasty of India, but they were not a European civ so the fifth cannot be the potential Persians.

For thr potential Siamese civ, the options may be same or very similar to Indians due to the history. There would be basically British, French, Portuguese, and Dutch. Everyone knows that these four have an important influence on the history of the Far East.

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Because stage two would be “opening” to the west during Isolation - leaving it.

My intention wasn’t to attack you or your ideas, I was just pointing at the fact that they didn’t modernize through isolation. Their “opening” to the west is by selecting a european ally. As for historical accuracy, I think isolation would fit for the Chinese, but I’m not sure about the Indians though. (I could be wrong) As discussed in another thread, Chinese isolation could be a way to include more obscure units that wouldn’t fit in base roster.

Regarding the modernization of asians units, I think it should either be through a card or maybe an age 4 big button tech shared through all european allies in consulate.

The advantage Siam has is that they actually went out of their way to establish diplomatic relations with European and American states on their own, both Ayutthaya and Rattanakosin sent official diplomatic missions to Europe.

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Another point mentioned here is that consulate options for Asian countries do not necessarily have to be European. For example, the self alignment of China in the campaign. Potential countries, Korea and Vietnam, have had their relationship with China as their core political issue in history, even in the face of Western colonialism. while Myanmar and Siam have been more or less influenced by the Indian region. Siam even includes its relationship with Japan, and historically, Siam has had close ties with Japan. Also, as I mentioned at the beginning, the African Indian community from Ethiopia also has a certain influence within the Indian state, including Americans who actively participated in Asian politics after taking over the Philippines. These countries are all optional options

Apart from isolation, it is indeed a tradition that currently only Western allies in Consulate. I’m not rejecting non-Western potential ally options, but if there are suitable Western potential options out there, I think it’s fine to give them priority to follow tradition.

First, I don’t think considering potential Korean and Vietnamese civilizations is a priority. If there are Korean and Vietnamese civilizations in the future, I would hope that they, as solid and major representatives of tributary states of the Chinese empire, have a unique building and a unique mechanic for using exports that are different from Consulate.

In other words, they are not using a consulate, but may be using a new building, such as the State Guest House. There you can always access some Chinese things, and the big button there is switching the levels of “isolation” instead of allies, which are complete isolation, high isolation, low isolation, and open. With the level of isolation, the effect of technologies and the quality of units will be affected. Some local units there must have a high enough isolation level to be accessible, and conversely some western units must have a low enough isolation level to be accessible. Western things are not classified by nationality there. For example, when Koreans are open, there can be Western units from France, Russia, and the United States at the same time.

This may be represented by many available ways to access Ronins and other Japanese stuffs.
Siamese have relations with many Europeans, so they do not lack options in Consulate.

These people do not represent Ethiopian officials. As far as I know, they did not come to India under orders or policies from the Ethiopian court to trade, colonize and establish diplomatic relations.
They could be a card for Indians, such as shipping a group of Shotel Warriors, but are perhaps less suited to being a Consulate option, after all, India has no shortage of Western options.