It is, but it is also better in all regards, except against Archers, Ships and Monks.
but how will it help in early game? since you are stating the villager discount which only saves some food in early game.
On the contrary, the Villager discount saves more and more Food, the longer the game goes on.
If it helps you ignore @JonOli12, realise he already made a fool of himself in this thread
He posted this
confirming that Indians could have BE and still be complete trash, without losing their characteristic vill discount
(Here he also appears not to have read the post he’s quoting, but that’s another story)
and then went back to claiming
and all of his other posts in this thread are basically variations of that claim.
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as if you were recruiting villagers throughout game. after a certain time you have to stop creating villagers. that claim is certainly exaggerated. villager discount only helps build up forces in castle age which is important for indians to defend knight rush. it has almost no effect in late game.
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You create Vills well on to the late Castle Age, at which point you save a lot of Food.
you are fighting with villagers or millitary units?
also talking of indian strategy in that early game defence why would one build 1 Battle Elephant over 5 spearman to defend from knight rush?
battle elephant are a late game unit, villager discount is a early game bonus, you are comparing irrelevant things.
you don’t build a lot of villagers in late game. Also by then food is ample so that the bonus doesn’t matter anymore.
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That is the reason why I think Indians with BEs are not broken. However:
- there are several civs needing way more a buff than indians. If we buff Indians, what about the poor Italians, Portuguese and Turks?
- if Indians need a buff, it is not a buff to their TG late game. In TGs they will go just imp camels. I can agree that indians can be very easy to counter from non-cavalry civs (especially meso civs), but on the other hand, they are a top pick vs cavalry/CA civs. If you want to buff them, give them something weak in TG but good in 1v1. In the past they had arbalest, maybe that can work…
So, I’m gonna try to explain why vil discount is so importan here.
Yes, khmer have an amazing eco bonus. Yet so, depends on how much working farmers you have. Indians, on the other hand, have their eco bonus all the game. Let’s suppose you do a fast castle with both civs. When you reach castle age, you gonna add at least 2 more tcs. With khmer you need to make farmers to support that production, and thus, you cannot automatically produce vils from 4 tcs. With indians, you can. Yes, in the long run your farmers produce less food, but you have the initial advantage of having vils discounts. That means that you can go foe an immediate 4tc boom, or 3tcs +army. Now, of that 3tcs +army is elephants, your indian pocket might reach imperial age super fast and with elephants and +100 vils. Keep in mind that for producing elephants you need A LOT of villagers. So yeah, in the long run Khmer economy would be betterz but Indians would get that unstoppable force way before, and from that, the game could snowball incredibly fast.
Plus, khmer are, still, arguably broken
Arbalest made them like a very solid archer civ like Vikings and Japanese, I think it was bad design as a camel gunpowder civ
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So I understand that Indians have a very strong early Castle age, and this can translate into a strong Imperial.
How does that fit in with your proposal to lock BE behind Sultans?
I’d expect Sunltans would be researched by the time you get to Imp, so the only effect of locking BE behind sultans would be to prevent Indians making BE in early Castle. Is it just that you’d want to prevent a BE rush?
Also I don’t play teamgames much, but from the teamgames I’ve seen Indians would always prefer Imp Camel over EBE, because one of the opponents is always going Paladin. Is that incorrect?
Why is EBE a problem particularly in team games?
(Just going by the fact that your proposal nerfs BE but not EBE)
I’m not saying indians should get BE. I’m saying that, if they do, it should be locked in that tech. That way, they would take more time to produce them and upgrade them to EBE, balancing their superb economy. Otherwise, they could reach imperial age with 100+ vils at min 25 or so, AND with several elephants already created. Wyat translate in like 40 EBE FU at min 30.
it is meant for defense only since Indians don’t have Knights line for raiding. If they successfully defended then they will be in a strong position. But there is also the probability to loose too many villagers in early knight raids.
Indian Camels are cheaper than Knights, and murder them, so that argument in not too good.
you always have the probability to lose villagers when defending. remember you are defending not attacking.
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Camels are faster than the enemy Knights, and your Vill discount allows you to both Boom and amass a big amount of Camels.
However big army you make you will just be losing resources in amassing them while the one who is attacking will just use Fog of War to his advantage and kill your villagers.
Fog of War?
You just scout constantly, like everyone else.
I don’t see any reason for Indians to get BE, outside of the whole “historical accuracy” thing.
Indians already have a pretty clear weakness against anti-cav units, giving them another stable unit wouldn’t serve any purpose.
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You don’t know FOW/Shrowd? it is the explored but out of visible range part of the map in strategy games.
As long as it exists you always have the possibility to lose units while defending.
Bad argument.
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