thats just BS. Then why do scouts get 2 extra attack in feudal and why is bloodlines researchable in feudal? Its a raiding unit. They wouldn’t cost 80 freaking food if they were meant to be just a scout unit.
except Eagle scouts are actually good and only not viable because they need 60 seconds to create one and it was a balance decision because they didn’t have counters in open maps outside of m@a
So just to be clear archers should be the dominant unit with literally only 1 counter while hard countering militia and spears, killing vils over walls(and trees) with impunity???
He also mentioned quickwalling. Quick-walling feels very un-aoe-esque to me. The rest of the game tries to keep some realism - pikes counter cav, non-siege is bad vs buildings, etc…
Then suddenly, magical buildings pop out of their air and block cav…
You are right but then they should cost less if that was the case. Anyway nothing needs to be done to the scout line as they are already too good, even with this bad pathing. A few scouts that enter a base can kill a ton of vills with proper micro and you are forced to make walls which is 1 vill not working and wood being spent.
Making walls useless isn’t something you want to do. There are civs that are defensive civs and you can’t just favour aggressive civs because HeRa sAiD So.
kill ton of vills is an exaggeration, it takes 10 hits to kill a loom villager unless you’re willing to get forging and even then its not the greatest investment you can make in feudal. And if a bunch of vills fight back, its best to run away. With some path blocking you may probably pick off one vill from a woodline while the rest retreat or quickwall. Feudal military are mostly about harrassing and idling and the occasional picking. If you lose “tons” of vills in feudal, you’re doing something wrong
First of all, archers are much slower than scouts. Secondly they don’t actually kill villagers that easily because they don’t have ballistics in feudal. You take risks when you move into the opponent base with archers if he has enough stuff to counter them. They also get countered by towers, not just skirmishers.
Scouts move so fast, they snipe villagers left and right easily without taking any risks.
I’m fine with scouts being decent against archers in a military fight though. Which they already are kind of, except vs big pack of upgraded archers, but then that’s logical that they should lose.
Otherwise if you have it all with scouts (if you remove walls and give them perfect pathing again), it becomes the go-to unit and the meta will become scout spamming in feudal for early wins. Some people would like it that way, some people wouldn’t.
It’s a matter of taste basically, it’s not like the game itself absolutely needs strong scouts and strong scouts builds to be fine.
That being said, it remains up to the devs whether they want to favour scout builds and scout meta, or not. They don’t have any obligation to do either.
If they can’t fix pathing, they should revert to the old 8 direction pathfinding. The new only hurts gameplay.
How long have you been around? You may not realize this, but scouts were actually made into effective feudal military by the original ensemble team back in 2001. In AOK, scouts only got the base 3 attack in feudal, and bloodlines didn’t exist. They added the automatic upgrade with the release of AOC in order to make them into a good unit, since they weren’t very good in AOK. If that’s what you really want, Voobly I believe still has AOK lobbies, and gameranger definitely does.
Rename Steppe Lancers to Lancer Cavalry, reduce their base attack and health, move them to the Feudal Age, maybe automatically upgrade their health and attack to their current values upon reaching Castle Age, maybe reduce their cost in Feudal Age, then give them to every civ. And there’s your gold Feudal Age raiding cavalry unit which isn’t immediately shut down by palisade walls. 
I have already seen a lot of post about Militia line needing a buff and now Scouts.
Maybe they need but also when will people realize that the main problem is that archer are overpowered?
Possible ways to nerf the Archer line (not all of the options bellow, but a least 2 nerfs):
About Scouts:
In general, both Scouts and Eagles Scouts need a buff if they are not going to touch Archers…
I also think that 80 food is OK for late game but too much for Feudal/Castle… That is one of the problems.
I think their price is fine, if we fix the pathing and/or nerf archers. Since they do still have good(not mainline like a knight but still good) capabilities and don’t cost gold. If you were to reduce the price of scout line, imagine how this would stack with magyar or mongols…
Or increased frame delay will reduce kiting at least, along with reduced stacking. Allows them to retain a lot of their current strength while reducing the abuse we see. But i like any of those ideas
nerf crossbow. fix pathing. upgrade the map pool. see what happens.
scouts don’t need a buff just because crossbow is OP
making scouts better wouldn’t even fix 1v1 arabia because that map isn’t even good for them
the problem is crossbows have no counter-strategy. skirms are bad. mangonels/scorpion/cavalry/eagle don’t even work until imperial age
Yes you are right, tons is exaggerated as you don’t have tons of villagers in the first place but it also depends on your investiments for the attack. And scouts are always very easy to micro so you can retain them if you don’t get trapped for futher ages.
They definitely do, you don’t know how to use them. Also even light cav have 2 pierce armor and they can be used against crossbows, just that you will be very behind for imp age.
lol
light cavalry don’t do anything against xbow controlled by humans
the map pool is filled entirely with camping maps for beginners. the crossbows never have to enter open areas.
They can’t, they are useless against crossbows
Skirms are not bad and Siege counter Crossbows even in the Castle Age
Quite the contrary, I am perfectly fine with the current state of the scout unit. I believe I am not the one complaining about the current situation and requesting to “Make Scouts Great Again” and buff them?
Yeah, crossbows are strong. But to say they have no counter strategy is quite a heavy stretch.
Elite skirms do trave favourably vs crossbows with equal upgrades.
Mangonels are famous for making xbow carpets.
+2 def knights and +2def eagle warriors can tank so many +2 attack xbows that they actually can be considered a counter. Against an opponent of the same ELO and same skill, you can’t get away with just pure xbows against those units. You need to add some pikemen for the +2 cav, and some kind of infantry to deal with eagles.
I see some players talking about nerfing archers. Can someone tell me how archers are buffed in DE? What changes were made to archers? I dont thing that many. So the source of why archers are pretty much OP at DE lie outside the archers:
I think the devs should focus on improving these points. The result would be much more scout rushes. I think the game would be much more healthy if multiple strategies are possible. At this moment it is too much focused on archers instead of scouts (and even knigths). I also know it would be a tiny balance line. Like someone already said in this thread: It is pretty funny that a year ago the discussion would be the exact opposite. Before DE scouts were great and archers seems to need a buff. That shows us how the meta can change over time.
I have to say: I dont really see many players go for scouts or knights at Arabia. Almost everyone goes for archers. Sometimes i even think: Do players around my own level other strategies then just go archers? That shows you how dominant archers are at this moment. If i play on open maps, then i almost know for sure that the enemy goes for archers. So why do players go for archers instead of knights or eagles?
I didnt made this thread, because Hera said those things. When i play the game, i pick mostly archer civs to go archers. I almost never go scouts. And if i go scouts, i just cant deal damage and lost. That is mostly because player wall very heavy in DE and archers are just performing better.
I didnt post this thread so i can post heras opinion. No, i started this thread to post my opinion, backed up with the vision of a pro. Hera didnt even include a solution for the current problem. I come up with the solutions.
Wut ?
How many games on Arabia have you played exactly ?
It’s VERY common to see knights and eagles, I don’t know how you’ve never seen them and seen only archers 
Same goes for maps like Gold rush, Acropolis, 4 lakes. Pretty common to see cav and eagles on all those maps.
I think feudal age archers have the same frame delay as xbows and arbs in DE, the only direct buff