what is your ESO name? i simply do not believe in somebody of that rank having that nonsense of an opinion.
If you compare the French Cuirassier with the Jannisary Unit of the Ottoman on a resource base and multi-purpose base, you realise, the Cuirasser has more to offer, not just cause it is trained quicker (through cards), runs quicker, splashes but also has a great formation tactic.
It is an Age III unit.
I believe it could need a bit of an adjustment, but nothing too drastic, it is melee, it is a horse, and the arsenal grants the Caracole upgrade which aids Anticav fight the Cuirassers.
There arent many units that can mobilise and ‘slow’ them down while Cuirassers are marching and raiding. That’s why we got plenty of walls late-game.
Maybe a slight 5-15% reducement of their movespeed would be a fair adjustment.
the issue is that the unit tanks, and it tanks well. speed isnt the issue, the issue is that it tanks so well compared to other melee cav and that it can be instantly replaced, the counter units simply aren’t that good at killing it and while you try killing it the skirms and art behind will kill whatever you have.
I disagree, speed is the issue.
It moves surprisingly fast considering its bulkiness.
It is a unique unit of the French so it will be more powerful overall than Hussars.
Anyhow, I think the Cuirasser could cost 160 Food and 160 Gold and have its speed slighly reduced. I think it would still be a very valid unit.
The Arsenal grants the Carricole Upgrade to Light-Cav & the Arsenal have some good Bonus vs Heavy Cav for some Infantry as well.
Try them out.
man, i think u are very noob player. Curiasers kille verything in most maps. I can prove it matematically, but 1000 players that say that curiasers are OP are not wrong. thanks and closed case.
Maybe you didnt read my posts above before posting yourself ?
In your favor, I like the French Cuirassier and it never butchers me, nor is epic in games I am in, it is grande though. So maybe me liking them makes me belittle how awesome they are.
If the reason you fear them is because of Great Plain’s Native Tech enabling instant Cavalry, then maybe that should be adressed.
”but 1000 players that say that curiasers are OP are not wrong. thanks and closed case.”
Quantity doesnt make right.
Anything will appear ’OP’ to a player that we failed to beat, and French is a common capable Civ, especially early on. The Cuirassier is multi-purposed, that is how it is hard to beat. If you go straight for his base’s weak points, both your bases will suffer unless he withdraws his Cavalry. The Units: Halberdier and Musketeer (if you set them into ’melee mode)’, will beat their Cuirassiers unless his army numbers is payed for by economy strategies beyond your own.
Each Horse is 3 men.
If you fight them with 1 or 2 men, you will lose, his army costs more, simply put.
Try using Heavy Infantry + Cavalry + Light Cav + 2 Mortars Army to beat a Cuirassier + Skirmisher army that has no walls. It will be a bloodbath on both sides. Advance with your heavy, if their Skirms appear, scare them with your hussars. Dont let your hussars get stuck attacking their Cav, instead use your anticav and Heavy infantry to pressure the Cuirassiers. Maybe eventually you reach a wall and that is when your mortar (defended by some heavy infantry), sieges their wall before you advance further.
If this is complicated, make sure your lobby doesnt contain players who will -and can -use complicated strategies to get an unfair advantage. That is true nomatter what your skill-level currently is. Its no fun facing someone faaaar too challenging.
My perspective is that:
A unit is its mix of population, resource cost and statistics.
Raise either and its ’OP-ness’ drops. I dont have its real-world-counterpart-statistics, so I dont know which feature should suffer a setback. But spontaneously; with good padding and upbringing, I’d figure its cost would be higher than 100 resource per population from a historical perspective.
If you got math, use it. And make sure to compare the Cuirssier to other ’Civ-Unique-units’ such as War-Wagons.
Well used/deployed, all units are awesome.
2 range and 10% attack dmg doesnt mean anything in the large picture.
you dont need natives for them to instantly be produced, france can do it all with their cards.
Unless I am missing a card, they have -80% training rate. That is 12 seconds, not instant.
Edit: thouroughbreeds makes it 95% so 3 sec traintime.
he Units: Halberdier and Musketeer (if you set them into ’melee mode)’, will beat their Cuirassiers unless his army numbers is payed for by economy strategies beyond your own.
FAKE. each curiasers atack 3 musketer at same time, musketer have no enough room to atack 50 curiasers in search of eco, nor the speed either to follow them, so, you have no defense before they kill eco if they enter your territory if you make dragoon, dragoon shot each 3 seconds, and curisaers can kill them 3 at the time. So curiasers have more DAMAGE PER SECOND so they kill all. Except something that has more damage per second than them, like the cavalry archer i had with seminola tech 25 more atack. So curiasers are most cost effective, and as they kill economy, and they have better cost-effectiveness, if they enter yo your eco you are dead (1 tc down 30 villagers less). And as a french with good eco can spam them, And they are tanky and Damage per second superior is just dead, if you kill them, another 50 are coming, and if french has a really good eco, he will sacrifice around 60 villagers to spam 30 more curiasers for a letal attack, undefensible
50 curiasers versus 50 musketeers, curiasers win
Cavalry are mobile, that is why you need to force them to you. That’s why you got anti cav and walls. In Age III, all Cav excell, cause walls arent established yet.
A Cuirrassier takes sbout double the size of an infantry unit.
2 Hal beats a 3 hitting Cuir.
How much Cuir are you facing in age III that you cant surround?
Still anticav is required at some point. Its their purpose.
show me in a video how you defend against curiasers with 1100+ hp and 72 atack with skirmishers or whatever behidn them, cannons etc. and i will belive you. AS I TOLD YOU ONE CURIASERS CAN KILL 2 DRAGOON, most of times.
I’d probably build a few culverin and do a mass Cav Spam to butcher that army.
SHOW ME man, talk is ■■■■.
Why is your Dragon in front of your heavy infantry?
why are curiasers spam on two groups of 50 just going to kill my tc? how do u stopped them before killing TC? They are vry tanky, cant kill them , they dont kill dragoons dont acre about them dont care aboiut anything, they kill villagers, once they break walls, they are juggernaut.
whatever cavalry archers are OP too, in seminoles natives map
You mean 25 in each ? (Pop = 150).
I will delete some of my settlers, cause you deleted 30 of yours.
I will use my corner Barracks to raise Heavy Infantry and Stables to raise Light-Cav. Slow their advancements with any unit who can hit any. And prey I have 6+ walls.
If I dont have 4 out of 6 barrack buildings in decent range, I’ll require the settlers to get called in. And the settlers to have a new super-close point of safety to hide on TC destruction.
cant kill them before they destroy TC and all villagers inside. at least another op unit with an special bonus can counter them. But playing with russia, only cavalry archer with seminoles 25% mroe atack for archers, can kill curiasers easily. Anything else is DEAD. nothing can stop them
Unless I can snare the Cuirassiers, I’ll be dead.
Also if feeling really desperate I can send in some Anti-Cav in melee to overcome the Cuirassiers Range Resistance, they also path-block and sneer better this way.
I can have 5 Hussars trained which I surround the Cuirassiers with as the Cuirassiers line-up to siege a wall and my hussars hit from all angles with ‘Trample’ to sneer as much as possible.
If this all-out rush fails, you sit at 150 pop wasted against 200 wood resources to rewall
If you split them I could maybe dare a Full 10 pop Petard continous spam on your Wall from an Artillery Foundry I’ve earlier placed closeby, soon your factories risk being demolished.
If I’m british I’ll laugh as we both burn.
But yea, that is definately a strategy in your favor, and as I said before, nerfing the speed of the Cuirassiers could be a method, cause it gives me more time to wreck them whilst they advance.
… The Russians will be muuuuch more terrifying with their high siege damage Cav compared to the French’s Cuirassiers. And as versus all siege units, wreck them with units before they wreck your base, preferably before they can even get close.
the church upgrade is 50% for cavalry, not the 40% it is for infantry meaning with it and the 2 cards it is a 105% retrain time, also you know it is pretty common for france to insta spam on maps like deccan and andes.
while this is true it is a disingenuous calculation, you should go by pop or available pop which is 120 for france and 100 for most others. the actual fight therefor will be 40 vs 100, not that it makes musketeers look that much better since even if they do win it is very Pyrrhic.
in theory this might work but we are mostly here talking the extreme late game not age 3, yes the unit is not broken in age 3 but it is in age 5 with its cards and a developed eco behind it. also you cant just keep falling back, fighting defencive all game will lose you the game in most cases. also again you cant just look at the unit alone, you have to contextualize it from the point that it perfectly suits france, the few units that can beat it wont beat the skirmishers and you cannot make a unit match that can fight both effectively.
the rest of what you guys talk about is a little weird, currs main advantage is how tanky and how hard they are to kill, not how good they are at breaking walls though admittedly they probably are a little too good at that as well.