How to fix Chinese dynasties?


I would like to hear a dev opinion on how to fix the state of Chinese.

TANG: Right now, the Tang dynasty bonus is permanent, while the other three aren’t. There is no single reason to stay in this dynasty for any bonus.
SONG: Is almost mandatory in how powerful it is for Chinese, without any real alternatives. You get both an eco boost as well as Zhuge Nu, which can decide certain matchups. This pigeonholes civ as a booming civ, despite great potential in early aggression as well as in fast castle strategies. Granaries are also good but still have some scaling issues.
YUAN: A great choice for the speed boost. The pagoda doesn’t feel very inspiring and when you unlock it, it’s detrimental to the tithe barns research. Fire Lancers are doing a good job.
MING: There is no unique building, the grenadier is situational in it’s use. For the final dynasty that historically also has some weight, it is very bland.

The concept of dynasties is very unique and interesting in it’s idea. But right now, there is a clear path laid out by the meta. Chinese is thought of a versatile civ. While this is true, this always requires a strong eco lead.
I would rather see a return of blocked buildings and units when you change the dynasty with a more meaningful effect that gives more choice to the player. Tang and Ming especially offer nothing that is changing the gameplay as a whole.

Tang could have a special bonus to imperial officials, since this is a time of great reform. Maybe supervision could return ressources when researching or it automatically returns twice the taxes during supervision.
Ming allows the building of three military academies. The first three non-siege unit build in it’s influence don’t count towards the population limit. If you kill 15 units, the ability resets.

What do you guys plan for Chinese in the future? What vision do you have for Chinese in gameplay and concept?

Thank you for reading


Right now I see there is a problem with taxes in late game, as we can’t collect enough tax gold fast enough given building cooldown, carry limit and IO pop limit of 4, especially when you use IO for supervision.

We need IO to be able to scale up for late game taxes, although it might not be too relevant as CN late game is in a good spot already.

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How about Ming Dynasty halves tax cooldown in addition to the unit bonuses?

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Why do you say that? It’s not permanent, but it is much weaker than the others.

I do think Ming should get a unique building now that they moved the buildings down one.

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it is, it got changed in a patch

No it’s not. The passive bonuses are not permanent. The unlocked buildings and units are. That’s the change that was made in the patch.

The Tang passive bonus is just longer sight range on scouts. It’s not permanent.

Chinese are the civ I am most scared of to try. I don’t feel like I can age up fast enough with them

you are right, I was mistaken

once you get down to learning it, they are actually the second fastest to age up, right after Abbasid