How to fix Flemish Revolution

I wanted to share the idea I had to make the Burgundian tech Flemish Revolution less overpowering.

We’ve heard many good points and seen many games where it is clearly the winning force, and focuses less on the player’s skills and timing of military production that we are enjoy in AOE2.

My idea is to simply introduce a contingency mechanic to the Tech: tech can only be researched after two Town Centers have been destroyed; making the tech more defensive than offensive, fixing the overpowering effects. Alternatively, castles destroyed, or castles and/or town centers.
This also makes thematic sense, as the revolution can occur after they have been attacked!

If you agree let me know. If you don’t, I’m interested why not?

Delete 2 TCs, research flemish revolution.

It’s a bit too easy to get around

I think Burgundians just need a much more drastic nerf, if Lithuanians got one in that way, Remove earlier access tto eco techs, remove castle age cavalier, Flemish rev back to pre nerf era but only unlock the possibiliy to tunr villagers into Flemish militia for 60f 20g each one. ez wy to ner them

Flemish rev isn’t OP. It’s a meme tech. Only using when winning as a final slap across the face or YOLO when outplayed

Just git gud

1 Like

Dont be so salty about the Lith change lol


How Im salty, Burgundian cavalier can just destroy any camel in castle age badly, how is balanced.
This civ is just broken

I mean, proposing these nerfs that are so massive and then mentioning Lithuanians makes me understand that you think the Lithuanian change is the stupidest change ever or something like that and I feel a bit of salt

1 Like

No, they are niched.

No, I think it’s used as often the best strategy when playing Burgundians while ahead.

The Lith nerf is the most mild nerf I’ve ever seen lol. It changes only something for the occasional Arena game… and nothing for Arabia and nothing for Hybrid maps… an equivelant nerf for Burgundians would be making their Stable tech discount only 45% lol.

Also, @DriftyJewel8202 Flemish Revolution is a nice tech, I would not change it further. It’s nice to be able to at least have one civ that can close out games that are already over, but being dragged out for another 30 mins by someone who just refuses to resign.

Not true. 1vs1 in castle age the horse wins by 1hp, but they are more expensive, therefore not cost efficient

Pls what? 11 You see this in all kind of games from showmatches to tournaments to rated games. It’s not meme it’s the most stupid the game has ever seen. Boom on 5+ tcs, make some cavalier to buy you time to get couple of castles up, go paladin and let your opponent commit into pikes and then have 150 vils turn into military. This tech isn’t only a game finishing move (can be ofc) but just can turn around games that would otherwise be lost.

Just do wath @MatCauthon3 proposed: Let every villager changed into FM cost 30 G or so.
(Flemish militia itself cost could be reduced to 50 F 20 G).
It’s an easy solution to take away that strange behaviour of that tech.

And btw in the exchange the coustilier could be buffed: reduction of the reload time of that charge would make it a nice utility tool for burgs again.

1 Like

Aka, exciting moments in tournaments. Probably something more good than bad. Audiences love a good come back from a bad situation. Anyhow, FR isn’t so OP as people think. Or even OP at all. CA civs are all immune to FR, civs with better infantry can handle FR fine, etc.

See first game of T90s stream on Wednesday. Slavs v Burgundians. Summary: More or less equal game. Slavs slightly better boom, fell back due to failed forward castle attempt. Slavs got back advantage due to constant raiding and basically better eco whole lategame. But Burgundians just kept defending and booming and Slavs champions didn’t have a chance against flemish militia. How are you supposed to win witb 60 units vs 130?? Only thing I have seen worked so far is arbs. Btw every player or caster on high level seems to agree.

I don’t see a problem with the description of the game you gave. Player played to the strengths of their civ and won. Usually a failed forward castle is a huge disadvantage anyway, so it seems like the player who did win, did rightfully so.

Nah there is nothing rightful in winning a game in which Burgundians had the advantage at several stages but ultimately fell behind because the Slavs player had more vils, more res and did better raiding. But as Burgundians you dont vare because Slavs have no answer to flemish militia. Champions cant win against them. Maybe boyars but that’s unrealistic after castle and treb fight. Half of the civs van pretty much resign against Burgundians when they get to fr.

I am glad that some raiding didn’t lead to a win. Kind of… nice when a strategic choice actually works rather than who has more/better Hussar spam

1 Like

Then this is not the game for you. Because that’s how late game works. Once one player drops below 100 vils it gets increasingly more difficult to come back. Unless your Burgundians because then you just win without making any military.

But nvm man. The case of fr is pretty clear to most people so go ahead and enjoy while you still can :slight_smile:

Yeah, well I don’t think spamming one unit is much of an RTS or has anything to do with strategy. If I want to keep clicking a hotkey furiously, I’d go back and play more DotA. FR is yet another one of those cases where some people just don’t like playing against it, but there’s nothing wrong with it otherwise.