Pick rates and viability for HOL have gone from it being insanely OP at initial release, to on the lower ends of the spectrum now. I would like to propose some simple changes to bring them up a few notches.
1.) Abbey of Kings Landmark (Feudal) should also operate as a Manor, be a drop-off location, and auto-produce the Lords of Lancaster similar to how the Macedonian landmark auto-produces the champions. Also, rename it “Manor of Kings” or “Kings Manor” as a result of the changes. This gives a good economic benefit to going this landmark instead of pure defense by going Lancaster Castle.
2.) Kings College Landmark (Castle) should also operate as a Manor, maybe even with 20% more passive food/wood on it, be a drop-off location, etc. This gives an economic benefit to Kings College, which is a good choice when weighing it against The White Tower which is pure defense.
3.) Make farms cheaper if in the influence of a manor. Down to 53, which is the same number Abba and Zhu Xi get on cheaper farms. A constant complaint about HoL is the transition economy is slow with no benefits. This would give them a great eco benefit. Abba and Zhu Xi aren’t limited within the influence of a building, but I think its fair for HoL to have that limitation given other benefits of the manor.
4.) Additional TC’s built by HoL currently issue 4 sheep. Increase it 9 like the original town center. This allows them to take a little better advantage of their sheep collection bonus.
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So I play HoL often and would agree it’s overall pick rate is lower and some of my struggles is just there isn’t solid gold revenue for it other than trade and relics when it comes to castle age. Yes imperial you get some gold from manors but it’s 330/ minute at max and you blow through that quickly with gold heavy units. It does have some of the strongest wood/food units so I don’t generally mind.
For Abby of kings, that one gets picked significantly more than Lancaster Castle so I would almost swap that idea of a manor to Lancaster Castle instead. The new addition of allowing garrison units makes a lot of sense for it to be more in line with something like Kremlin for rus.
The castle age eco bonus comes from its 20% off technology which does make an impact. But yes maybe to help it’s pacing or momentum would be to also have it actually as a manor. The current higher level strategy is to make one manor and that’s about it vs previously was to make all the manors quickly. So having a way to gain extra manors would help support more of the previous strategy with HoL.
In regards to their TC I do find the new TC lower cost making HoL the cheapest TC in the game as it is actually an economic bonus to make one. Paying 700 resources to get 800 food back means the trade off is great for making on and highly encouraged to make them as much as Abbasid in most cases so I find it to be okay but maybe an extra sheep will help others see its value.
Then HoL would be OP again
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OP again? Isn’t this civ essentially suffering right now because of a total lack of economic bonuses? I would say the buffs I mentioned here are pretty conservative, and none of them are for gold which is really the biggest issue, but it will require them to have less villagers on food/wood and be able to pump trash, build infrastructure, and commit more to gold mining without giving them a direct gold benefit for the manors.
Good feedback there… I am seeing a lot more Lancaster Castle now that you can garrison, so I think the Manor buff likely still makes sense to me, but I agree with you if people still aren’t picking Lancaster Castle as much.
Do you have any other ideas for gold buffs? Is that the real issue with them?
So food and wood they excel in for sure with manors but yes gold is where they lack. Looking at their units they don’t typically use gold heavy units, yes hoblar and earls guard use some minimal amount of gold. Their discounted handcannon units help. Looking at other civs like Rus(gold from cabins, extra wood gather and extra food from bounty) there is typically a synergy of some variation of bonuses or civ specific tech that allows for a path to obtain more food, wood, or gold. For house of Lancaster they are just missing that gold bonus/ it comes too late in imperial with the manor gold generation. Not that you always need a bonus to help with gold (there’s relics and trade) but it does help with balancing. Maybe as a fix for this they can get that manor tech in castle instead of imperial? Or there’s the odd ball idea of traders passing manors generate a small % extra of gold similar to the Malian tax system for trade?
I’d prefer to give HoL some late-game units that are actually viable in team games. Whenever I play this civ and reach the late game, I’m always left wondering what to produce.
Replace Additional TCs with Manors, they produce villagers at slower rates (maybe 40+ sec for a villager). Bigger as a TC in size. spawns sheep, has garrisons. also provide manor passive resource and aura.
It does not make sense for them to be building a 2nd TC and manors as of right now, it just 2 types of similar eco buildings why not make them into one. just replace TCs with manors. Cost need to be adjusted.
I still believe gold passive is a bit of an issue late game. Either move up the gold passive tech on manors to an earlier age, or add on to it where for each villager nearby it generates 1 or 2 gold. When comparing to English late game, each farm will gain 10 gold per minute which adds up. Compared to golden horde, each stockyard can earn 40 gold per minute near an outpost. But manors cap at 11 x 30 gold per minute so 330 max. While yes there’s other resources it generates, late game gold is so vital to success.