Well balance isnt purely based on competitive, I think the largest amount of players play casual and then often team games.
Because Otto doesnt give you an insta win doesnt mean its bad.
They were never “special” they were always just a better musketeer which they still are.
Abus is an artillery piece, not a musket or anything like that. Besides realism here you will most likely train artillery later on and because your jans are better musketeers you usually dont need abus early game unless you want to stomp heavy infantry players.
Also Abus are pretty strong, yes they cost 2 pop, but they are basically 2 skirmishers in one. Making them cost 1 pop, is basically OP in which heavy infantry players can just resign from the start as they wont be able to win.
What is your solution for Otto? If you say Otto is okey, I and so many players dont agree with you. We dont say Otto should be op but we say devs should some changes to become Otto preferable for players. If you cant win the game with Otto or other civs, there is no point to play with these civs.
From what the user posted about Jan, Abus etc I simply dont agree.
And yeah I think Otto is fine. Again, balance isnt based purely on competitive as thats just like chess remember the moves and follow it precisly and win as fast as possible, while casual usually reaches later stages of the game were Otto begins to shine more.
Not every civ has to have a perfect rush, a civ should also be able to defend early on and carry the game into age III or IV, which Ottomans are more than capable of.
The reason Jannisaries dont have 2.5 multiplier is because they get different bonusses thats how the balance/flavour is done in AoE III when its based on another unit. For one Jans have 60 more hp and do 9 less damage compared to musketeer, but 5 less then Ashigaru, while Ashigaru has 3.5 multiplier compared to 2 multiplier of Jan. Those 5-9 damage differences to purely cavalry is pretty nihil and is pretty much negated by Janissaries more hp.
Too OP, abus guns are 2 skirmishers in one, civs like Sweden can just press the resign button basically. I agree that Abus are a bit in a grey area, as they do not a buff in some way, but reducing the pop makes them really good again making them need a nerf. I think they need a bit more hp or damage (not area)
Its not, Ottomans have I am pretty sure the most unique units of all civs (Jannissary - Abus - Spahi - Great Bombard - Imam - that boat - Nizam) Adding more isnt better as you will get the same as pikeman and crossbow or in other words they rarely get used and will be a waste of time and effor for the devs.
So you think Ottomans are good and well, they can counter and defend to other powers, why dont people prefer ottomans? Ottomans only train janisarry and obus guns, this is not historical. Long games, janisarry is not powerful as you say. Obus guns may be artileryy unit but they are mainly skirmisher unit but we cant train from barracks also they are expensive. Spahi can be obtained with shipment, this is not historical. Ottomans dont have dragon cav unit. Cav archers arent effective like dragon cav. Other civs like French, Britain, Spain, Portekiz have all counter type units also have uniq units like Ottomans. Uniq units arent exculisive for Ottomans. You can say Ottomans are fine, I respect but I and other players dont agree with you and as you can see, some players open threads about Ottomans balance like other civs. I hope age of 3 wont be a game which players choose one or two civs to win the game. I play the game for fun. If ı play a civ, this civ has facilities to win the game.
Deals 2x more damage to heavy infantry compared to Abus skrmisher (30-60). Cavarchers better skrmisher.(22.5-30). Mirror (15-40) In general, abusers have about 2x more damage, but their health is about the same. In this case, the exploits are 50% stronger. Abus siege attack more good. However, having 2 pops adds 10 wood per unit. (50 food+65 gold or 50 food+100gold+10wood is 50% more expensive than the difficulty of gold.) Abusing requires more gold and this is difficult. Also, abusers cannot raid villagers. (1/4) While Skrmsher is 3.0, Abus has a fire rate of 3.5. Due to their low numbers, they are weaker against horses. They take more damage under Tc. Less destructive. Requires a separate artillery place. (This is much worse than you might think.). In 2nd epoch 2 and 3rd epoch 1 range is less. note op. In age 3, skrmisher evolves automatically. Compare the Dutch and Otto economy. Villagers are 2x slower and have no banks. In this case, I think their soldiers might be a little stronger. It’s also almost garbage in the long game. Because 2 pops. Its power can be increased even if 1 pop is not made. (For 4th age.) 3rd mosque upgrade or 4th age card can be considered for this. Considering it’s artillery, 1 area attack might be appropriate. Thanks
Its inevitable for games with 8+ civs (basically smaller amounts like starcraft not) to not have a selection of civs being a bit stronger then the others. Ottomans are played pretty often in casual games.
Long games (thus able to build and upgrade) they are one of if not the best musketeer unit in the game, I would argue even better then Ashigaru.
This game is not a simulator, otherwise they miss a whole bunch of units like sappers, lancers for everyone, bunch of artillery etc.
You sure about that? I mean yeah they have more options, but do you see a lot of French games were they spam Crossbow and pike?
Ottomans have the same counters as every civ. Infantry against cav? Janissaries. Infantry against infantry? Abus etc. If you look at Britain, their units in barracks are longbowman, musketeer and pikeman. Pikeman is a unit made obsolute by musketeer and only really good for food wood rush. Longbowman is good, but a unique unit and just like abus gun. Musketeer is just Janissary.
Look at Portugal, basically all units used from barracka are the cassadore and musketeer, which both are also unit types otto has.
Ottomans have, they can rush if you do it right and they can easily bring the game into mid game to late with fast fortress.
Thats why I say abus need a buff, bot not in pop, more like hp increase.
Its a similar unit as Germans unit rooster with a lot of pop expensive units. Sopplesoldner is basically 2/3 halbedier and you see that in price and pop.
In my opinion the biggest issue with Otto currently is centred around abus guns. They have been nerfed to fire every 3.5 seconds instead of every 3 seconds, meaning they always take 2 shots from enemy units before returning fire. When this is compounded by Abus’s very low heal per population and meager 20 range resist, they get picked off so quickly by nearly anything ranged, and of course, are extremely fragile in melee as well. The second issue of Ottoman’s roster is that none of their units are good against ranged cavalry. This again falls onto Abus guns. They do 1.5x against ranged cavalry, but then this is penalized to 0.5x against all abstract cavalry, leading to a net damage output of 0.75x against ranged cavalry. Now, to make it all even worse, they take 2 population, have the penalized rate of fire, and do less than even base damage to a unit they SUPPOSEDLY counter.
Lets lay this out with a few basic numbers to why this is so problematic. Standard euro dragoons will take one shot from an abus gun moving into range, then get off 2 shots before the abus can return fire. How do you deal with that? the dragoon will shoot twice (once shortly after the abus gun and then about half a second before the abus can fire again), meaning they’re doing, what, 50 damage? to a unit that only returns around 30 damage back to it. And this is a fight between equal population of units. Oh, and goons have 200hp base, abus are the same as a 1 pop skirm, but with less range resistance. Doing siege damage isn’t useful when you are stuck with a 25% penalty anyway. What ottoman really needs is a revert to abus rate of fire, and then a better multiplier against ranged cavalry, probably at least base damage (eg. 0.5x vs cav, 2x vs ranged cav).
The other, less likely to be done or received well, would be to give ottoman some sort of archer infantry that is 1 pop and would fill the role of a yumi or longbowman, weaker vs HI but stronger vs ranged cavalry. As it stands, everyone knows you can just spam ranged cavalry against otto and you’ll never lose a fight and otto wont have the eco to replace their units nearly as quickly as you can
yes they are abstract cavalry. go into the editor and drop a goon and an abus and have them fight. the abus will do 30 damage (0.75x of 40 damage). Jans lose to most goons too, as they’re just expensive musketeers and do so very little damage, especially on de with the drastically lower HP
how is people still defending the fact otto military got nerfed when their eco still bad… while there are things like sweden and japs with op eco and op army still? otto army did not need any of the nerf they got.
Otto is OK at some matchups IF you can outplay your opponent severely. I really feel that people that say otto is fine are either low rating or never played otto before
From experience, later here will be an excuse from someone saying only several people here complained Otto is UP and 3000 people playing AOE3DE don’t think so.
Watch Twitch. See reviews of the best. Only keiser otto says he’s fine, but he doesn’t play himself. Mostly they say it’s bad. One of the 3 least preferred civilizations in tournament. If it was good, they would prefer in tournaments with cash prizes. Hazza tier list Otto d. Team and 1v1.
Changing the mosque border to 2 or 3 can prevent Otto from screwing up on maps without Tp. =0.70 xp x3 =2.10 xp 450w. 2.80xp= 600w. Even 1 Bank is 2.70 gold and 350f+350w=700 resources. I don’t think the balance is broken. This is necessary when we consider villagers trained in 48 seconds. In this way, otto gets rid of being dependent on Tp. And the balance is not disturbed.
If there is TP, this method will not be preferred since it gives 1.74 per second. (Advanced Version)