I just would strengthen his selling point, the building ability. Make him able to build walls and palisades, and gates. The fortification theme fits with sicilians, and you can do good things with good micro if they can build walls
Maybe normal towers too. Or castles. A castle drop with sergeants looks scary.
That’s 400 stone!!! That’s nearly a castle… Its 4 TCs… It should be hard to kill its a hugge investment… In comparison you get more than 3 towers which are MUCH harder to kill especially with trebs (which will come eventually come)
And that’s also why the donjon is so weak. A tower survives longer due to its tiny base size. Donjon almost always get hit.
Although i think it could work thematically it might open too many issues. The interface for the unit. The potential for micro abuse. Quick walling isn’t as oppressive since its locked to vils. Now being able to do that in a fight??
Area control is extremely extremely powerful in a fight, as starcraft has proven.
I think that’s a happy medium. Not too radical like 1 (and thus ultimately much faster than a celts militia) .but 0.95 is still able to get things done. Also leaves room for a potential discount.
1:1 sgts are still a better unit in most situations. It’s only cost effectively that champs are better.
I know this. But it’s atm the best usage I could find for the serjeant. If the enemy moves his army to that tc I would have to retreat.
I just wanted to show that Serjeants have good raiding potential and therefor the gold cost is actually justified in my eyes. But the total cost hold them back.
Welll, I’m fine with the idle time. You need at least double the amount of champs to take down a tc and forwarding poses a risk, too. And I think you would lose more res in total with champs.
And I’m also fine with the idle time. with the serjeants. Of course in the end you’ld like to take out the tcs, but to cause a lot of idle time or force the enemy to retreat to protect the eco is also a good step to win the game.
I just wanted to show, that the serjeant doesn’t need to be more mobile, the tanyness alone can be strong enough to make it viable if the cost is adjusted accordingly.
Any buff will make them more appealing but increasing their speed makes them more flexible. Instead of being yet another version of cost effective militia.
Your example proves they are fine vs a static lightly defended target. A group of hussars doesn’t hurt your gold eco, forces Idle time AND actually kills vils. On top of being able to escape.
Conversely we could not talk about a vacuum and actually include your opponent in the equation. Who can simply push YOUR eco… With the exception that sgts cant run back to defend anything. They cant run anywhere. They can be out flanked and out manoeuvred more easily than opposing UU infantry nevermind cavalry
Actually, it’s 0.945, and after squires, they would be as fast as celts LS.
Idle time is fine, but why not using LC for post imp? And onestly at that point if the enemy doesn’t have army or castles to protect their TC for the time that 10 serjeants takes kill a TC, well it’s already GG…
Yeah but tankiness isn’t what incentive the use of a unit, especially a infantry unit. Just look at the TK.
Don’t get me wrong, a discount on the cost would work well too, but I would prefer faster speed.
Well, I just make a prediction:
Even a speed boost to 1.2 wouldn’t make it viable. Explanation in my posts above and I have also one additional i will reveal when devs decide to buff them that way.
It would just make first crusade abnoxious to deal with again.
yeah sorry, but 20+ years of the Teutonic Knight have proven this wrong on so many levels.
Making serjeants able to build all kind of military buildings could indeed improve them.
The TK isn’t tanky vs archers. 25 arbalests can one-shot a TK, but it needs 38 to one-shot a serjeant. TK costs 50% more.
TK still aren’t used even against a civ like Franks who have horrible archer options.
I also tried to explain this earlier, the serjeant is maybe the single unit in the game which doesn’t needs to be mobile to be effective.
TK is a very secial unit, completely different to serjeants. Tk can’t raid. Serjeants can.
Besides I agreee serjeants aren’t the best raiding units in the game. Palas, eagles, scouts, cav archers… are all better. But it’'s mainly because of the cost, not because of the lack of mobility.
The unit is fine. It has 7/8 armor and more HP than champions.
Maybe the elite upgrade could be bit cheaper but I feel like sicilians weakness is that they can’t make any other unit. Like if they had at least hand cannoneers they could have decent lategame comp with them and serjeants.
They should remove Champion and Supplies from sicilians as they’re redundant and give them some range options like heavy CA and Hand cannoneer. in addition to that scilian houses should cost -40% wood so they can save a little bit resources.
No, definitely no. Right now sicilians still need them as eagle and trash counters. And i would like the serjeant to be buffed in a way this is maintained.
I also think the champ is actually also the only really viable tool sicilians have vs infantry civs. Am I worng?
oooooh a hidden “i told you so” i hope you wrote it down next to a date on a piece of newspaper for full proof…
I don’t let my vils being kidnapped ;D
Having a better and more flexible UU would improve the general flexibility of the civ. Or even having a powerful unit that can carry them, since no other sicilian units really shine (maybe their cavaliers, but it’s not always enough for killing the enemy…).
Maybe even a buff of their attack, or an attack bonus, or faster attack.
Armor alone isn’t enough…
none of this matters
they are slower at everything, so they can’t participate in the game until it has already been decided
What do you mean they can’t participate till the game is already decided. I wouldn’t say they are the greatest but you shouldn’t be flat out overwhelmed before you have a chance. Maybe just readjust your strategy. You could use sergeant to take arrow fire and mix in champs, pikes, knights, or any other combo needed. Winning games is completely possible. I think people are just wanting them to be more then they are. Realisticly what i see these guys doing is protecting donjon and castles. You regarrison them to help up pop out to kill what comes close or take arrow fire and help finish buildings off. I dont see these as stand alone single function termination unit.
I have played and see many wins with Sicilian and not just donjon rush.
they have one of the lowest win rates, tons of players, as well as pros say they are weak
other civs have more cost efficient options than this. rams for example tank arrows WAY better, while halbs and champs can fend off everything else…
thats 2 upgrade lines costing a lot of food both doing a very similar job, and both easily out flanked by cavalry
your ally is going to get doubled and die before any of these units will reach where they need to be
But not that much of a difference in upgrades. You use the same blacksmith upgrades. If your going champs dont go elite.
Then use rams. They are slow even when garrisoned and dont add much in a fight against units.
Where are you getting the win rates from? I can use that to make a better assessment rather then anecdotal evidence.