Well, between a meta of 1 civ, and a metà of 3 civs, I choose the one that is at least slightly better.
In my opinion, the problem of water meta goes beyond just civ balance. There are about at least 3 other civs that could be decent in water maps, but the meta is too much focused on 3 civs.
Not really, you can definitely win water only going for fire ship in most cases, and mixing galleys and fire ships early on is definitely the worst thing you can do since galleys are useless vs fire in low numbers. And most of the time fire galleys is the best unit choice.
Yeah but FG don’t really threaten fishing ships, or doks, and can be countered by an equal number of your FG.
Fire galleys become important only in castle age, when they are upgraded into fire ships and you get careening. But here we are talking of feudal fights only.
Ironically keeping wheelbarrow/hand cart for vikings as a free tech but making it so that it is no longer researched instantly actually would make vikings an option on x256 maps without the vills bugging out.
It’d also be an overnerf to a civ with a rather limited lategame tech tree.
that bad off but the civ is absolutely carried in the mid-lategame by those two free techs. Mainly wheelbarrow tbh.
To me Vikings should have a flat 10% discount. It is borderline unbalanced that the only units you do in water are discount.
Portuguese and koreans may have a nerf of the effect of their discounts for navy.
Italians might even loose the dock tech discount for a more balanced eco bonus, maybe a wood bonus that can help on land too.
I agree on the late game viking weakness, that’s why I coupled it in my OP with increasing the infstry hp bonus.
Currently their eco is too good, just to balance their bad late game options.
→ nerf eco + buff lategame uniqueness
Seems straightforward to ne
I don’t think you nerf them without changes to water units themselves. If you nerf them, you’ll have another civ bonus become more important. Water is just a hyper-snowbally meta.