# How would you buff the Indians? **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697 "2020-11-18T14:54:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WoeIsToWho](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/woeistowho/32/29128_2.png) [@WoeIsToWho](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WoeIsToWho)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/41 "2020-11-19T07:10:03Z")
Here’s a thought, chew on it for a bit and then immediately tell me it’s terrible, because I’m literally just throwing it in because I want to: Change Sultans from making gold gather faster into something big, dumb, and ridiculous. A one-time tech that turns all your Cavalry Archers you have into Elephant Archers instantly. If you have Heavy Cavalry Archers, they turn into Elite Elephant Archers. Instant dismount the horse and mount the Elephant. Suddenly, massive power spike that warrants the investment into, and warrants the massing of, Cavalry Archers. Make it as expensive as Torsion Engines or Druzhina, and watch the world burn. ---
**Author:** ![Rohan8623](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/rohan8623/32/29665_2.png) [@Rohan8623](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Rohan8623)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/42 "2020-11-19T07:19:14Z")
Buff the Elephant Archer. A creative idea that was proposed. You can now garrison Elephant Archers with Crossbows. You can garrison x Crossbows in a Elephant Archer. Each crossbow gives 1 range. ---
**Author:** ![Rohan8623](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/rohan8623/32/29665_2.png) [@Rohan8623](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Rohan8623)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/43 "2020-11-19T07:20:29Z")
I do not know anything about balance. But buffing elephant archers is a good idea. A unique tech to make them buildable in archery ranges is also a good idea. As there are no techs which make an archer unique unit buildable at the archery range. ---
**Author:** ![JokerPenguin593](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jokerpenguin593/32/128367_2.png) [@JokerPenguin593](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JokerPenguin593)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:56am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/44 "2020-11-19T07:56:46Z")
> [@Rohan8623](#): > > A unique tech to make them buildable in archery ranges is also a good idea Another alternative is make sultans reduce the elephants TT. (This may or not include battle elephants if added to indians) ---
**Author:** ![DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/doctbaghi/32/177207_2.png) [@DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DoctBaghi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/45 "2020-11-19T08:00:36Z")
> [@Rohan8623](#): > > Buff the Elephant Archer. > > A creative idea that was proposed. > > You can now garrison Elephant Archers with Crossbows. You can garrison x Crossbows in a Elephant Archer. Each crossbow gives 1 range. The EA are already a strong unit, their main problem is their prohibitive cost, allowing them to garrison archers wouldn’t help, because you would also have to train and upgrade archers. If you want to buff the EA, just give them +1 range, so that the Indians would have a unit with the same range of the arbs (that the Indians lack). ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/46 "2020-11-19T08:23:57Z")
I have an idea, perhaps giving HCA for free to Indians, which would be a great buff, and allow them an early Imp power boost, that would at least allow them to do some damage before the enemy could mass Huskarls/Eagles, and level the playing field. ---
**Author:** ![DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/doctbaghi/32/177207_2.png) [@DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DoctBaghi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/47 "2020-11-19T08:57:01Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > I have an idea, perhaps giving HCA for free […] Do you really want to give the Indians such upgrade for free? I mean with their cheap vills they have a huge booming potential, maybe it’s a bit too much… I suggested that the HCA upgrade could be 50% cheaper, together with PA. This way you bring the upgrade about at the cost of the arb one, compensating a bit for the lack of the unit, but also buffing the civ in general (a CA is stronger than an arbs). I mean, at least this way they should still spend time and some resources researching it, which is on about the level of adding arb to their tech tree (but with a stronger unit in the end). They could also lower a bit the IC upgrade, since they are weaker now… A more accessible HCA with IC and hussars, or even EA and HC sometimes could work. ---
**Author:** ![Parthnan](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/32/55505_2.png) [@Parthnan](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Parthnan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/48 "2020-11-19T09:09:43Z")
I have to say, ALL of the suggestions i have read here are all far FAAAAR better than leaving the Indians as they are … helpless and essentially buried below the ground. ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/49 "2020-11-19T15:42:40Z")
Well, the devs did follow YOUR advice of “any nerf, no matter what it is”, aswell as the TG community’s request, even at the detriment of 1v1. All of these, are bad. ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/50 "2020-11-19T15:54:14Z")
> [@DoctBaghi](#): > > Do you really want to give the Indians such upgrade for free? It is one of the very few Cav Archer related bonii available that no civ uses. HCAs are not really that strong anymore, anyway, since all civs have Elite Skirms except the Turks, which have Anti-Archer Free Hussars now; and teh modern pathfinding made Skirms much better against Archers than they ever were. Free HCA would be a strong powerspike for early Imp, but almost inconsequential for late Imp, for example. > [@DoctBaghi](#): > > I mean, at least this way they should still spend time and some resources researching it, which is on about the level of adding arb to their tech tree (but with a stronger unit in the end). Arbs are cheaper to upgrade and train. I would much rather a civ have Arbalests, than HCAs, they are just a much better, more efficient unit. ---
**Author:** ![DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/doctbaghi/32/177207_2.png) [@DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DoctBaghi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/51 "2020-11-19T16:06:55Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > Arbs are cheaper to upgrade and train. That’s why I proposed 50% cheaper HCA upgrade, it would cost the same resources of the arbs upgrade (a bit heavier on food, a bit cheaper on gold). As for the unit cost, well they are also a more powerful one, so it’s balanced. There could be other 50% cheaper upgrades along the HCA, like PA and hussars, and I think that it’s actually better than simply give them a free upgrade. Though, free HCA could work too… ---
**Author:** ![JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonoli12/32/50441_2.png) [@JonOli12](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/JonOli12)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/52 "2020-11-19T16:10:13Z")
> [@DoctBaghi](#): > > As for the unit cost, well they are also a more powerful one, so it’s balanced. I actually disagree here. Arbs have 1 less Attack but a +1 damage bonus vs Spearman and 1 more Range and LOS than HCA do. The frame delay on HCA is also double that of the Arbalest, and you can fit more Arbs in a tight spot than HCas, which means a much greater focus fire potential. ---
**Author:** ![DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/doctbaghi/32/177207_2.png) [@DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DoctBaghi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/53 "2020-11-19T16:18:04Z")
> [@JonOli12](#): > > I actually disagree here. Arbs have 1 less Attack but a +1 damage bonus vs Spearman and 1 more Range and LOS than HCA do. With PA HCA have more bonus vs pikes, and they have +1 base atk, more speed, HP and armor. It’s not always the best over the arb I agree, but the higher cost it’s justified. Also, in castle age aren’t good because of their frame delay, but they are powerful in imp when you patrol them, especially if you have another mobile unit that can kill paladins. The idea is to give them a solution for imp, not for castle age… ---
**Author:** ![SouBotsito](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/soubotsito/32/29229_2.png) [@SouBotsito](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SouBotsito)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/54 "2020-11-19T17:14:13Z")
Indians with one of the highest winning rate at 1650 is just reading this topic, saying pls bro do you want me to get 70% win rate, they don’t need more buffs, they have a HUGE economic bonus, champion and HC and full skirm plus bbc and an UU with 9 pierce armor, they don’t struggle at all vs most army compositions. The imperial camel nerf didn’t change anything they are still dominating all the team games in +2500 level so… ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/55 "2020-11-19T18:38:27Z")
Dude most that data is from prepatch. And consists of 318 games total. Not a whole lot to go on. ---
**Author:** ![FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/furtherlime7936/32/113417_2.png) [@FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/FurtherLime7936)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/56 "2020-11-19T20:07:12Z")
> [@SouMexican](#): > > champion That lacks the final armor upgrade > [@SouMexican](#): > > HC and full skirm plus bbc And that won’t guarantee you a victory > [@SouMexican](#): > > UU with 9 pierce armor, they don’t struggle at all vs most army compositions. Which is quite expensive, requieres a castle and has many weakness. ---
**Author:** ![PlumYeti372253](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/plumyeti372253/32/60920_2.png) [@PlumYeti372253](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/PlumYeti372253)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/57 "2020-11-20T01:04:51Z")
Elephant archers should hit like a truck. So instead of 6 / 7 (elite) attack, they should have 7 / 9 (elite) attack. This means 13 attack on imp with full upgrades, which is still only 6 to fully upgraded Paladin. Possibly could give even 1 more attack in exchance for some HP ---
**Author:** ![DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/doctbaghi/32/177207_2.png) [@DoctBaghi](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/DoctBaghi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/58 "2020-11-20T09:21:07Z")
I would instead buff their range by 1. They have the same 4 base range if the CA (since they technically CA) but they are slower, so they lack that versatility. Also, indians lack arbs, so EA could compensate for that. ---
**Author:** ![Sylux1000](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sylux1000/32/48045_2.png) [@Sylux1000](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Sylux1000)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/59 "2020-11-20T11:29:15Z")
What about an attack bonus for CA? Maybe just +2 vs infantry or archers ---
**Author:** ![SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/smum15236/32/29763_2.png) [@SMUM15236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SMUM15236)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697/60 "2020-11-20T12:58:58Z")
> [@DoctBaghi](#): > > I would instead buff their range by 1 I’d love to see that one. I also want Shatagni affects them as well. So you have 9 range EA in imp. The biggest problem with EA is its food cost. Camel+EA is not easy at all to go for in even with Indians boom. And they are slow too, even slower than BE (which does not makes sense to me tbh). I think their speed should also be increased from 0.8 to 0.9, same speed as swordsman line. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-would-you-buff-the-indians/108697.md?page=4)