The problem with making the Militia line better is the Aztecs will just keep using their 21 attack Champions rather than their 20 attack Jaguars.
Champions are easier to mass, cost less, and are better as generalists.
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I think Jaguar Warriors should receive a speed increase and more pierce armor. Those two changes should address their biggest weaknesses.
I don’t think they should be fundamentally reworked like everyone is suggesting. They are fine as anti-infantry specialists, as long as they can survive long enough to get into melee engagements.
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Problem is, you are basically moving between Eagle Warrior and champion. No matter which way you go, you are overlapping with one of them. It should stand apart, have its differences accentuated, not made more similar.
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Half true. You got the answer in the very next reply.
Well, neither Champion nor EW is as good as JW against infantry. But if you consider 45f/20g, trained from barracks vs 60f/30g trained from Castle, I think it is clear which is better even against infantry.
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They are slightly more population efficient, the problem is, it’s small enough of a difference that most people really just won’t notice, and you really can’t change your playstyle based around it.
What about something like, faster speed the lower their health is? That would allow them to guarantee good fights and escape the bad ones.
Honestly, after a recent T90 video, I’m not sure Jags need major changes. They were used to great effect against Malian long swords, and were even incredibly tanky against crossbows in Imperial Age.
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If that is just one example in years, I think JW still needs major changes.
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I think pros don’t use Jags much because they believe that Jags are terrible. Momentum and reputation have a massive impact on how frequently units are used.
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It is more common to fight eagles with cavalry but not militia line. Besides, Aztecs does not have halbs and encourage opponent to use cavalry. JW is somehow discouraged by Aztec tech tree.
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I personally always saw AoK Infantry (and Jaguars) as more premium Militia line units that also have a unique bonus. If Jaguars are going to cost 90 Res, they should come w/ better stats than. If you want a cheaper unit, Champions are at the Baracks. Plus, Aztecs could use a more premium Infantry unit.
I did like the 1st suggestion of moving some of the Anti-Infantry bonus to base attack.
Elite Jaguars should at least have more attack than Champions.
More Health and melee armor would make them feel less like a “glass cannon” and justify a higher cost.
That’s certainly true. But here I think facts are more dominant than stereotype/reputation. I didn’t watch the video yet. So I can’t come to conclusion. But main issue with JW is they don’t do well compared to Aztecs Champion. Had Aztecs didn’t have Garland Wars (but JW still have the same attack as current), I don’t think there would be such big issue.
What about JW having an Aura Effect that amplify current Infantry bonus damage by an amount determined by the quantity of JW in the group?
Like a +1 bonus damage every 5 JW in the area.
So that Militia line would make more damage to buildings, pikeman to cavalry (compensating the lack of Halbardier) and eagles to monk and cavalry. Even the JW bonus vs infantry could be amplified this way.
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They don’t really need more infantry damage, they’re already decent there. It’s everywhere else that they fall apart.
That’s why I wanted to see them get a stacking kill damage bonus. Use them in their intended niche, against infantry or other weak units, and they gain enough power to be used elsewhere.
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Yeah. That’s the whole point of this thread.
I’m not sure about that. I think it is better to make them even more specialized than generalized. Militia line should stay as the general purpose infantry.
You mean the new Monaspa mechanism but only for attack bonus?
Now I think about it, I think I can propose something useful. I must repeat I don’t wanna see an gimmick ability for a classic UU JW or a classic civ Aztecs. So only the base stat of Monaspa can be transferred over. Like low cost, low HP but high MA and attack. For example -
Cost reduced 60 food, 30 gold → 40 food, 15 gold
HP reduced 65 (75) → 55 (65)
MA increased 1 (2) → 4 (5)
It feels a little strange to see their total resource cost lower than that of the Eagles. 11
But this will make them Shotel Warrior-like.
I think the difference is the preparation.
If JWs also have, for example, +10 attacks against cavalry, when the opponent’s cavalry comes, as long as there is a castle, JWs can gather faster than Monks, and JWs’ attack bonus is ready, while Monks’ extra HP still need more golds and waits.
For them without halberdiers, it is very helpful to have the UU behave decently not only against infantry but also against cavalry.
However, I also like to have them act like Condottiero. They don’t have Thumb Ring nor Ring Armor, so having the UU help against gunpowder would also be helpful.
Both suggestions require only statistical changes, no bells and whistles.
Are they more useful than an Eagle? I feel like not.
This is true of Berserks as well. But Berserks are even worse, as they only get a slight speed bump in exchange for less HP and armor compared to Champions. At least with Jaguar Warriors you get a stronger unit than what you can make at the Barracks.
Berserks> jaguar imo. Health regen helps in prolonged fight. Chieftains helps a lot in fighting off cavalry, which is much more common than infantry.
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Seriously, don’t underestimate healing on infantry. Infantry are unique in how they lose like 90% of their value with just ~30% of their health. The in-combat healing is paltry compared to the between-combat healing.
Berserks are one of the best infantry UUs in the game, while Jags are almost unquestionably the worst.
Aztecs have good Skirmishers and Eagle Warriors so I don’t think it was a good decision to give Jaguar Warriors more Pierce Armour.
They should have buffed them in the opposite direction, make them better against Cavalry.
So:
- Armour from 1(2)/2 → 2/1
- Bonus damage vs. Cavalry +5(6) (Camels 4(5))
- Regenerate 10(20) HP for every kill they do
Now the unit is clearly different then the Milita Line.
Jaguar Warriors are much better vs. Infantry but also better vs. Cavalry.
But the Milita Line is more resistent vs. Arrows so better vs. Archers and Buildings.
Now it becomes more of a choice which unit you want to train.
Also Aztecs don’t have Halberdiers so they anti Cavalry is pretty mediocre right now.
The health regeneration on kill fits the Aztec theme of rewarding successful warriors. Also makes them survive longer in prolonged fights.